'74-'75 Rectangular Mirror Problem Question
 

I've got a '76 that I mini-backdated to look more like a '74. Stainless mirror, fog delete, narrow bumperettes and metal grill, etc. One of the things done was weld the square hole for the flag mirror shut and install a '74 rectangular repop mirror.

The problem is that even though the installation looks right you cannot adjust the mirror pointing down enough to actually be albe to use it. I am 5'-11" so nothing unusual about my size. I'd post a picture but there is nothing to see. The curve of the body line in a longitudinal plane before and after the mirror mounting location is EXACTLY consistent. I can sight down it and there is no waviness, nothing.

The mirror I bought wasn't available from Pelican at the time so I think I got it from Oklamhoma Foreign (possibly Parts Heaven) and the guy told me it was a foreign made repop and the quality was so-so. I bought it anyway because my body shop had to fit it before paint. Before realizing it wasn't just an adjustment problem I tried adjusting it down so much the internal half spherical plastic bushing split...but it is still useable.

Anyone else had this problem? Is it likely a poor quality reproduction part and something inherently wrong wit hthe geometry of how they cast it? or do you think it is something in the installation? I hate to spend another $75 only to find it wasn't the mirror in the first place. I have taken it on an off a few times, there seems to be nothing to be done to make it adjust to an ordinary usealbe field of vision. Also, I want to install a right side one but finding those is tough. Anyone have either or both in good condition for sale at a reasonable price?

Dan,

Can you disassemble it off the car? I assume the in-out is properly adjustable.

Best,
Grady

Dan;
Jack Olsen runs the '74 rectangular mirrors on both sides of his Black Beauty II. I was looking for a passenger side mirror for my '74 Coupe and saw a picture of his car. I asked him today where he acquired the passenger side mirror and he directed me to Einmalig Porsche in Huntington Beach, CA. Their website is einmalig.com. I wrote to them and Brian Farmer wrote back and said they have reproduction rectangular mirrors for $125.00 each. You might email Jack Olsen and ask him if he has any problems with his mirrors? Please post what you find out because I really would like a passenger side mirror to work on my Coupe.

Ventana

Ventana, thanks for the source....I think! I paid $79.95 if memory serves for my driver's side mirror. Of course, that price difference alone either represents a heck of a mark up or...how crappily made a mirror I bought :>) But I'll look into it nonetheless

Grady, Yeah, it can be miassembled and I have done so but basically it is just a cast base and an arm. The arm has a bolt that runs through it into the base that is surrounded by a spring. The arm "rides" in the plastic semi spherical ball I mentioned and though I have studied it I haven't found anything that looks "modifiable" to accomplish what I need. Namely, being able to make it point upward so I can see traffic behind me. I'll call Einmalig and see what they tell me. Incidentally, I saved a picture of Jack's Black Beauty I - one of my all time favorite cars. It shows BOTH mirrors and I think they balance the look very nicely.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1173798876.jpg

'74 Sideview Mirror
 

Dan;
Here are a few more possibilities in your search for a mirror. In my searching for a rectangular side view mirror I came across a listing in Excellence for Foreign Intrigue (foreignintrigue.com). I contacted Michael Grishman about their mirror #911 731 014 01 and he said "Yes, the 911 731 014 01 is the correct right side mirror for your car. Original mirrors have not been available for over six years. The one we carry is a reproduction." Their price is
is $80.50.
I was thinking that you may want to try removing the attachment screws from your mirror and then using some duct tape to temporarily hold the mirror to the body while you sit in the driver's seat. Have an assistant make small changes in the mirror's position until you can actually see a usable image. This may be a way to discover if the problem is the mirror or the position in which the mirror is mounted. I used this procedure to mount a passenger side mirror to my '57 Chevy which was not equipped with a factory mirror.
Hope this helps;
Ventana

I believe that I have the same repro mirror as you for the right side. It does not adjust quite as well as my original left one, but enough to use. I believe that you have mounted your mirror in the wrong spot. It does not go in the same place on the door as the left one does. It mounts higher and more to the front of the door.

Dan,

That is one killer looking mid year!

Paul and Fintstone, Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure Jack Olsen says thank you:D That's his old BBI, not MY car. It isn't a Mid year anyway. I posted the picture to show the kind of mirror I am having a problem with.

Paul, The mounting bolts coincide with the factory through-the-inner-door-skin holes so I have been assuming it is in the right place. What I am MOST worried about is that the mirror is correct but the painter finished the curvature of the door skin incorrectly when he welded shut the flag mirror square hole.

I don't THINK that's the problem because the curvature of the door profile is exactly consistent all around where the hole was welded shut, but I can't be absolutely sure unless I buy or borrow a true factory mirror and attempt to mount it in the holes to see if it CAN be adjusted properly. If it can, I'll know my door is fine and the mirror is repro crap. If I cannot then I know the painter finished the door skin incorrectly....and getting him to redo it will be tough, though I WILL make him do it!

Anyone have a factory rectangular mirror (even with broken glass) that they will loan out? I promise to return it asap!

I used the BMW mirrors that go on a 70's 2002. PN 51-16-1-821-793 driver and 51-16-1-822-076 passenger. Get them from the dealer. The mounting base is SLIGHTLY different fron original, but the flag and stalk are identical. They are really nice. About $110 each. Not the best pic...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1173927488.jpg

Wangrande, I've got to ask - why did you go with non-Porsche mirrors? Were you having trouble finding the factory ones or what?

P.S. Thanks very much for the part numbers. Any chance for a closeup picture?

Easy fix for a matching pair. Many driver side correct options, but passenger side is rare item. This option was suggested by a friend of mine Mr. Schmidt on this forum (known to build great engines) and I am happy with the quality. Mounting base is, like I say, not exact in the outline compared to the original, but the brushed finish of the stainless, the tinted glass and the overall profile is great. Matching pair is your answer. I will try to post close up pic soon. These are dead on.

Dan,
There were never any OEM right hand side mirrors made to match the lh flags.
The ones on Jack's car are a little larger than the original lh flags.
That said,the ones on Jack's car look pretty good to me !:cool:

Cheers,
Dennis.:)

The BMW mirrors work and look great...but tyhey are just slightly different that the stock Porsche ones. I saw them on one of Henry's cars and would have done the same if I had not already bought the repro for the right. The BMW ones are better quality and a bit more adjustable than the repros.

As far as mounting position for the right, the factory mounting spots are not correct for the '74 repro mirror. It mounts higher and farther forward.

Jack's mirrors are the larger, more useful '74-'75 type instead of the correct, smaller '72-'73 mirrors. Note in the photo that his right mirror is mounted a bit higher than the left.

In a head-on shot you can also see the slight differences in left/right position.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1173994549.jpg

Thanks Jack, et al. At this point I am most interested in getting ONE friggin mirror to be useable. After that I wil worry about getting a right hand side and making it work. My question remains, do I have a poor quality repro mirro that cannot and will not ever be able to be made to work in the factory location? Or did my painter somehow mount it improperly which will necessitate me taking the car back to the painter for grinding, welding, re-drilling, etc? Does anyone have a factory left side mirror they could loan me for a day to trial install it on my car? If it then CAN be adjusted to work, all I've got to do is buy a good mirror. If not its a LOT of work to get things straightened out.

Dan,
I believe that there is only one manufacturer of these reproduction mirrors. Pelican now has them in the online catalog. Our price is $72.95 each.

My factory left mirror has one more adjustment than my reproduction right one. It adjusts at the top of the short shaft (at the back of the mirror) and at the bottom (where it meets the base). It makes all the difference. I wish I could find a similar one for the passenger side. I believe the BMW ones also adjust at the top and bottom.

Does anyone have a template on where this style of mirror should be mounted on the right side? Any suggestions? Also will a factory driver mirror and reproduction right side mirror be all that different?

Totally unrelated - didn't the '74/'75 have the "new" nose instead of the early-style nose with the two side vents/grilles between the hood & sidemarker lights? I thought this was changed in '74 with the other body changes, but if I'm missing something please edumicate me before I head off in the wrong direction with my restoration.

By new nose to you mean, not the long hood? My 75 had doesn't have the long hood and side vents. It did however appear to come with the driver side chrome mirror. I had bought flag style mirrors and was going to mount them but now am having second thoughts and think I want to stick with the original chrome mirror. In this case I would need to add the RHS mirror, which I can't find any documentation on placement/positioning of this mirror.

Same with my '74. AFAIK, the "correct" configuration for my car was the short hood (no side vents) and the single chrome side mirror. I've been told that only the Carreras had the option of the passenger's side mirror also, but I honestly don't know if I buy that entirely. I suspect that with enough $$$ you could have had nearly any option you wanted back then, maybe the dealer would have even put a pass. side mirror on for you. Dunno.

I believe the '74/'75 cars are also supposed to have the chrome surround "sugar scoop" headlight surrounds, not painted to body color. Pretty sure on that one.

Here's a right-hand side mirror I bought on eBay from :eek: German Auto Dismantlers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190087563.jpg

I also have an original left side mirror, and side-by-side the two mirrors are perfectly matched.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that the right side mirror was a factory item (part of me suspects that it still may be that, or a very good "reproduction" if Porsche really didn't ever make the right hand side mirror)

Either that or you've had a BMW mirror on your car all these years and never realized it! :eek:

The stainless steel ones available here on Pelican aren't bad, if not 100% original.

I have a '75 S which obviously came with only the driver's side mirror. I've long wondered if the right side mirror from a British/Australian/South African spec car would fit on the right side of my car. Are the mounting holes on a RHD car in the right place for an passenger side mirror on a LHD car? And are there junkyards in England full of chrome exterior mirrors for middie 911s?
Chris

Stupid question, but can you chrome-plate stainless steel? If so, I might eventually send the ones I got from here out to get dipped, which will look a bit more "correct" than the brushed stainless. The brushed finish doesn't look bad, but it's technically not "right" either.

Haven't decided on the pass. side mirror or not. The P.O. of my car put on the 80's style power "flag" mirrors which are admittedly more convenient for use, but they're not correct for the car, so I'm backdating to the correct ones.

One thing I've noticed (I think Dan alluded to this already) is the mounting holes for the flag mirrors don't work at all with the earlier rectangular manual mirrors that are "correct" for the mid year cars. The holes are in all the wrong places, meaning you either have to find mid-year doors or weld the holes shut. I'm pretty sure my doors are from a later car, either that or someone cut the holes in. Either way, it's something that will have to be addressed.

I think I am also going to move forward with the chrome plated mirrors, and was curious also whether these can be dipped/refinished.

Also can someone who has mounted the RHS reproduction mirror give me an idea of its general positioning. I know it can't be in the same place as the LHS. I have seen templates for the flagstyle for a RHS but never for the chrom/reproduction style.

crashr:
the driver and passenger mirrors have the same mounting base dimensions. So installing them is the same, but position is NOT ! As with all left and right mirrors, the passenger mirror has to set back and up on the door so it is useful to the driver.
If you mount it in the same position as the driver side, your passenger will enjoy the view but you won't be able to see anything

The best way to position the passenger mirror is to sit in the car, have a friend hold the mirror along the upper part of the door in the corner wing glass area. Have the friend run the mirror fore and aft slightly till you get the best view from your normal driving position.
Now, an important mounting note: You will have to remove the door panel for access to the inside of the door so you can mount the mirror. Put some masking tape on the door , center punch where the holes go, then drill. As you are drilling into a slightly curved surface, the punch marks will help guide the bit so it does not skip and ruin the paint .

And finally some nit picking: There NEVER was a rectangular factory mirror made in chrome or black for the passenger side that matched the driver side. Never, ever, never ! Even when Porsche was making the RHD models, the cars would get round mirrors on 73 older and a plastic VW mirror on 74 up

RHD cars did not come with rectangle mirrors. They came with round Durants.

If you specially ordered a passenger side mirror, the factory fitted two round Durants and the passenger side had a convex mirror.