Okay, I'm looking at my chain and tensioners...advice needed here.

I see the source of the noise, but it doesn't appear to be the tensioners. The chain is quite tight on the top row, but problem is the bottom.
The bottom part, where it makes the long stretch (and where there are the two bottom black ramps), the chain can be pushed in about an inch. I'm guessing, but it's quite loose on that bottom row.
This is the source of the noise
Clearly it is slapping these ramps while it's running. From the look of it, there is no way it could jump a tooth cause the tensioners are working and keeping it tight around the sprockets...
The question is, how much play should I have down low? An inch like that?
If not, what is the problem, my chain?

Any and all opinions welcome.

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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Wouldn't some of that slack go away with engine oil pressure up and running?

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Robert Stoll
83 SC
83 944

I guess it would...but why is it making noise then? This is what I don't understand.

I just did this once. It seems to be that the tensioner does exert a fair amount of pressure on the chain wheel carrier, but not enough to prevent chain movement by hand. One side is tighter than the other, I recall.

Also, my chain rails were BEAT UP. Some folks have had them break off. If your chain is slopping, those rails will be sorry looking indeed.

Finally, not knowing hoe tense they should be, I would compare one side with the other. It's actually two separate chains, I believe.

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'83 SC

My ramps are as clean, fresh, and beautiful as a newborn baby's behind. Seriously. So whatever noise there is, it isn't from them.

I got new gaskets, and I will put it back together, I'm going to crank my engine with the covers off and have a look.
Any danger is starting the car with the covers off (after I reconnect the tensioner oil lines?) Just to have a look down there while it's running?

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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Kurt,
Run the engine with the chain covers off. You will need a can under the right side for the dribble but the left drains into the engine.
Note that the carrera tensioners use spring force to maintain the 'loose' side of the chain tight, which is the bottom side on the drivers side and the top on the passengers. There is also a check valve inside the tensioners to hold the actuating internal piston tight before the oil pressure comes up when the engine is started.
When do you get the noise?
Should say now that I had a noise in my 87 and I was certain that it was a loose chain rattling but only when I started the engine. Learned what I know about tensioners chasing that one down.
Ah,eventually I found that the noise was caused by a loose starter Bendix hammering around after disengaging.
The new tensioners that I put in work just as well as the old ones did and the rebuilt starter works great too!
You win a few, you lose a lot, as I say.
Ned Monaghan

That seems like a bit too much slack. The fact that it is on the top or bottom is of no consequence however, as that changes as the cam turns. The pressure exerted on the cam by the valve springs will try to turn the cam forwards or backwards depending on its orientation. How do the sprockets look? Are they deeply pocketed between the teeth? Try turning the engine over until the slack is at the top. Is the tensioner able to take up the slack? Or does it appear as though it has run out of travel? Sometimes the chains and rails and sprockets all have enough combined wear in them that the tensioner starts to reach the end of its tensioning abilities. Or you could very well have a bad tensioner. The suggestion to compare it with the other side will give you a great deal of reference and would help a lot. It is difficult to to do this over the internet, especially with someone who hasn't ever seen one apart before so sorry if this all seems Greek. BTW, the ramps can be worn out but look pristine. You really need to compare them with new ones. (Groove depth etc.) They are cheap enough and should be replaced regardless.

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Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet

Okay, I turned it over a few times, and checked the chain. Now it's very tight everywhere...
I'm going to start it then and see if I get any noise...dunno what i'll hear with muffler off.

Okay, I turned it over a few times, and checked the chain. Now it's very tight everywhere...
I'm going to start it then and see if I get any noise...dunno what i'll hear with muffler off.

Gee, Kurt, I'll bet you hear lots of unmuffled exhaust noise, sort of like a real big lawn mower with a rotted muffler!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Yeah. You should be able to hear your engine just fine!

You know, as far as finding noise sources, here is a trick that works well. place a stick or dowel against various parts of the engine and its components and hold the other end of the dowel against your ear. the sound will actually transmit marvelously. This works nicely for listening to alternator bearings and such (not in 911s, of course).

If Tyson says ramps can look new but be worn, then I won't disagree, but some of mine were so hashed they are hanging in my garage. Along with the clutch release fork I bent because I didn't know what I was doing.

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'83 SC

Well to clarify that Superman, I should have said that they will look fine to the untrained eye. If they are worn they will look worn if you know what to look for. The chain, of course, covers the part that wears so you have to look under them. there will be two worn grooves that run parallel where the outer links rub.

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Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet

Kurt,
When do you get the noise. What is it like. My suggestion regarding running the engine is so that you can see if a chain is hitting anything. If the chain is not hitting, it is not making the noise. Gotta go, late.

Final followup for now. I couldn't hear a damned thing except my exahust, which like those old Maxell commercials, basically blew me halfway down the block. So, I shut off the car.
Any, I put things back together.
But I got stuck in "torque em goddamnit, I don't want leaks mode" and broke the hollow bolt that goes into the right tensioner...And gettting a replacement will have to wait til monday.
Thanks all. If it makes noise, I'll take em apart next weekend.
It's always fun to take things apart and put them back together until you create a problem that wasn't there isn't it?
But at least you sleep better knowing Exactly what the new problem is, cause you done made it yourself.


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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

I think torquing things too tight causes at least as many leaks. Easy does it on most of those fasteners! Then torque just a little more if a leak develops.

I see what you mean, Tyson, about the wear grooves, but some of my ramps looked like they had been sandblasted and sprinkled with acid. Helped me decide to break down and get the carrera tensioners.

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'83 SC