An email to my PPI wrench

[Gogar]

I bet professional mechanics hate doing ppis.

I had a PPI done on the car I recently bought. I'm quite happy, the car is certainly worth what I paid.

I had the PPI done by the PO's mechanic, who rebuilt the engine 2500 miles and 6 years ago. It runs great. I did notice, however, that there is no Carrera chain tensioner update on the engine. Oh well. But man, if the PPI had mentioned that tidbit, perhaps I could have used it to my advantage when negotiating the purchase price, you know?

So I sent him an email and here it is:

Howdy!

You performed a PPI for me on (PO's) 1983 911 SC a while back, around the 1st of February. I ended up buying the car. I flew to KC and drove it 600 miles home. It runs great. A little leaky, but I guess that's to be expected since the car only saw 400 miles a year since you rebuilt the engine/trans in 2000.

Anyway, thanks for the PPI and stuff. I wish you would have noted that you guys did not install Carrera chain tensioners when you rebuilt the engine, but thanks for telling me about that light bulb that was burnt out.

Cheers!

Jeremy Lawton

Am I just a whiny weenie? Or should a good PPI have told me this? Or, since he was the wrench who rebuilt the engine, is it possible he's just not a believer in the chain tensioner update? I just kinda feel like a ***** now that I sent the email.

What do you think? Thank you.

[jorian]

if you feel bad about your email, give him a call and explain further. email is notorious for being misinterpreted

PS I'd want to know if it had the tensioners - but I would have asked during my follow-up call with mechanic.

[Gogar]

I agree, I didn't really do "my job" either. But I guess I assumed that since the engine was so recently rebuilt, that Carrera tensioners were kind of a "gimme". You know what they say about "Ass-umptions"!

[Rick Lee]

Didn't you notice it didn't have the tensioner upgrade as soon as you opened the decklid?

[jorian]

sounds like it was a long distance purchase - so he had to rely on the mechanic to be his eyes and ears. There has been debate about the neccessity of tensioners - maybe the mechanic doesn't believe they are neccessary. Personally, I do.

[craigster59]

Maybe follow up the e-mail w/ a phone call to find out if he installed the collars on the tensioners. I don't think the e-mail was out of line, but you might want to establish a repoire with the guy in case you have any other questions about the rebuild down the line. Also you can get his opinion on Carrera tensioners and why he didn't install them

[the]

A PPI by the PO's mechanic is worse than useless.

You got off lucky.

Why would he mention to you that the car does not have Carrera tensioners? It's not a Carrera. It doesn't have a 3.2, either, but he probably didn't mention that.

(Plus, why would he necessarily mention something like that so you could grind his long time customer, who has paid him thousands of $$$$, on your purchase price?)

[Deschodt]

If I were to write a letter to the guy who PPI'ed my 73.5T, it would go like:

Thanks a lot for certifying that the car was in great shape. You might have missed that it was made from 2 cars welded together, however... It wasn't hard to figure out if you had bothered to put it on a lift !!! That and the 2 VIN #s were not matching front to back of the vehicle... Or the fact that the CIS was totally whaceked and the car barely running, the brakes were pulling, there was no handbrake nor high beams...

And I could go on and on... That was a long distance purchase, I don't trust PPIs either now... just my MkII Eyeballs !!!

You had a complaint ? ;-)

[Rick Lee]

When I DIY'ed the PPI on my '83 SC, I bought a new valve cover gasket kit, removed the valve covers and checked the head studs by lightly putting a wrench to them. All was fine. Bought the car and 1000 miles later went to do a valve adj. and out rolled two head studs.

[cashflyer]

Here's my take on it, for whatever it's worth.

Did you ask him to note all upgrades?

While the Carrera chain tensioners are a desirable upgrade, the lack of is not an operational defect. Sounds like he informed you of the defects.

I bet he also forgot to tell you about that 150 shot nitrous kit thats missing.

[Porsche_monkey]

PPI's are a thankless job. Not much money in it, tons of risk, and chances are you will never see any future work from that customer.

Unless you wrote a written specification for him to check and report back on I wouldn't blame him for not mentioning the tensioners. Lots of people do not want the 'upgrade', that mechanic might be one of them. The old tensioners have their proponents too.

If the engine leaked oil, I would expect that to be noted. Maybe you could scan his report and post it.

Not all mechanics are as anal about cars as we are. Sounds like you got a disinterested mechanic, or somebody who was working for the seller, not for the guy paying him.

Move on, lots of people have been screwed over way worse. I'm pretty sure he hit the delete button after he read your email.

[JB36]

I felt I was ripped on @ $350.00 PPI. I had a long conversation with the shop owner over the phone and then picked up the car and brought it home. I then brought it to my local shop for a state inspection and a post PPI. Nothing major, but several obvious issues such as: leaky valve gaskets, flaky pressure gauge, broken CV boot, and a seeping oil return line.

I called and complained. It did nothing for me $ wise, but at least I got to put him on the spot a bit, made him squirm, and then said later. I accepted the fact I wasted my money.

[paddock jones]

It seems that you are unhappy w/ something about the purchase and therefore want to complain about anything.
Do you regret the amount that you paid?

[jaydubya]

The carrera chain tensioners are a good idea but not a required upgrade to drive the car. The setup on your '83 is better than the earlier SC years.

FWIW I've had my SC since 96 without the carrera chain tensioners. Eventually I'll install them but I'll probably wait for a "while you're in there" opportunity.

[Gogar]

Thanks for all the replies.

I didn't start this thread for you guys to pat me on the back and tell me how "right" I am, so thanks.

I guess I'm just kind of embarrased that I didn't see it myself until I got home. And then I was just staring at the PPI that told me a light bulb was out and a tire was a little low and I wanted to blame someone besides ME.

I think cashflyer's and PBH summmed it up pretty well for me and helps me put it in perspective. I did get an email back that kind of summed it up the same way, and I replied accordingly, with a hint of apology.

Oh yeah and then I went out and drove my car really fast.

Cheers

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hey Gogar,

We feel your pain. Feeling cheated is nasty. I hate it more than anything else. For the new people who will read your forum, it is important to point out that a PPI from the guy who worked on the car is a really bad idea. The mechanic is human and will show bias and loyalty to the guy who paid him outrageous prices to keep his car running. Why would a business owner risk alienating a regular customer who spends big bucks to help a total stranger while potentially hurting his meal ticket?

I just sold my 924s and bought a 911. The purchaser of my car wanted my mechanic to do a PPI and my mechanic refused the money stating that out of state buyers represent a liability for his shop. He did tell my prospective buyer that he has service my car for two years and that it is very clean and runs good. My buyer was lucky, the car was represented fairly and accurately and receipts from the previous owners were provided.

I took the car I found in the local newspaper to my shop for a PPI and got a thorough PPI including leakdown and compression for $200. The previous owner dropped the price from $16,5 down to $12k. He was not representing his car fairly to me over the phone, his brand new tires were purchased in 1999 and had dry rotted, he did not mention the puddle of oil that had accumulated under the car (he drove it so little that he might not have noticed), the car needed a complete brake job and pulled hard to the left with noticeable shudder above 50 miles per hour. The repair estimate was $5,700, which gave me some bargaining leverage. The brakes and tires were immediately and desperately needed, plus a wheel alignment since it was badly aligned and cost about $3k. The oil return tubes are almost a standard issue on our beloved cars. I saw a MINT condition, concours eligible car with 25,000 miles that needed to have the oil return tubes done, the owner of that car just sucked it up and had it done at the shop.

Some of us have to fish in the bottom end of the 911 pool. My wallet could afford a 911 for less than 20k, which means that you have to educate yourself about what can possibly be wrong and what it costs to repair. My fellow Pelicans contributed immeasurably to my education.

The car I found has good bones: It is immaculate inside and out with no noticeable wear on the seats/interior, the engine/transmission/suspension are very good and supported by PPI, and I knew what the problems were and how much $$ to correct them. After the brakes/tires/alignment, the car drives like new. I am very happy with my purchase. I also feel ok about waiting to replace a very expensive heater blower motor and auxillary helper fan $$. The oil leaks are something I plan to fix myself after reading the tech articles here and encouragement from guys who have done the work themselves. Oil return tubes sound really scary, but I think I can do it.

Lastly, I wanted to send a mechanic a nasty note after a PPI for a very different reason. I found a 1988 Targa on Craig's list with 25,000 miles for $22,500. The owner is a few towns away so I had to find a PPI and resorted to asking someone famous if he knew someone local that was honest and knowledgeable. I offered to buy the car for the asking price pending a PPI. The mechanic found a seized caliper and one oil return tube and estimated a repair bill of $700.00. Mechanic gushed on and on about the car until that owner just decided to keep it and apologized to me for withdrawing his offer to sell. I don't know about you, but if I had a date with Marilyn Monroe and she said she loved me, I would have a heart break when Joe Dimaggio married her. I looked at every other car compared to his "like new" car, and found them all hard to marry. The car I settled for is Norma Jean, a beauty but not a movie star. An email to the mechanic could only have made me feel worse. Now that I have Norma Jean, we are still poor but very happy together.

[Gogar]

I don't feel cheated. I was just a little bummed about the "no information equals no bad information" kind of thing. But the car is great, so I'm over it.

[Porsche_monkey]

Maybe we should have a thread on creating a PPI checklist. You shouldn't have to re-inspect the car yourself when you just paid someone to do it. And you shouldn't discover obvious faults as soon as you drive it home.

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by JB36 ...$350.00 PPI.

I guess "professional" mechanics are different, but I don't think I would ever charge a fellow Pelican for a PPI. (except that they cover any travel expenses I incur)

Originally posted by Gogar
I think cashflyer's and PBH summmed it up pretty well for me and helps me put it in perspective.

Holy crap!! I actually made a comment that helped somebody?? Man, I got to get back over to OT....

[notfarnow]

There must be some shops that do great PPIs, but aren't as great when it comes to doing long distance deals.

Case in point was the PPI on my dad's Carrera a few weeks ago. Got recommendations here and on dorkiphus, went with the most highly recommended one. Spoke with the shop manager, felt very comfortable with it.

Because it was a long distance, sight-unseen deal, the PO (who was great to deal with, by the way) drove the car to the shop. Even though I had made the arrangements for the PPI, and I was paying, they started communicating results through the seller. I'd call, but was told the mechanic would call me back. Then I'd get an email or voicemail from the seller saying hed gotten a call from the mechanic, they are doing XYZ. Made me uneasy.

Then, after everything checked out, and I spoke with the mechanic and went through the results, I asked for an emailed copy of the PPI results. The said they'd do that in a day or so, but everything checked out. We went ahead with the deal.

Then, after everything was finalized we get a copy of the PPI, which shows a few small issues that hadn't been mentioned at all. None deal breakers, but we would have expected to hear about them.

Today, dad has the car and the driver's side turnsignal doesn't work. No juice, and the mechanic has 4 hrs in trying to trace it.

Wow, a novel... sorry.

My point is that this was a shop that came HIGHLY recommended, but I really felt they dropped the ball with communication. I think it would have gone differently if we had been there in person.

Originally posted by PBH
Maybe we should have a thread on creating a PPI checklist. You shouldn't have to re-inspect the car yourself when you just paid someone to do it. And you shouldn't discover obvious faults as soon as you drive it home.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_checklist.txt