weight loss program for a 3.2?
 

I had several goals for my 85 carrera this year. Car is one of my everyday drivers, but also sees the track an average of 3days a month- DE, time trial, etc, and an occasional autoX.
My wish list included:
1. More power( of coarse!!) I presently have a 3.2, rebuilt to euro specs, exhaust and chip which is putting out 225 at the rear wheels (255-60 at the crank if I assume a 15% drivetrain loss), so I doubt that there is a lot of easy HP left.
2. Brake upgrades. I have lost brakes on the track once due to overheating. I have since added cooling ducts- and really have had no problems, but wanted bigger brakes anyway.
3. Better handling.

As I was looking at my list, I realized that all these wants could be achieved with weight loss- the car, not me.
Am I missing something here??
Is there a "guide to weight loss" or anything like that?
Can I take enough weight off the car to achieve any of the above goals??- I hear 7-8 pounds = 1 HP, so 100 pounds would be significant.
I have already replaced the nice, but heavy, stock seats with recaro- an srd and an spd.
I am looking at replacing the bumpers with fiberglass- for looks and I need a front oil cooler for these Florida summers at the track- again, more weight gone.
Any other easy pounds? Rear seats or other parts of the interior??-any idea what they weigh?
Thanks- this is a weight loss new years resolution I can keep
Gary

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Let's see now.....how much does that A/C compressor weigh? According to your figures that baby may be worth 5 horsies. Florida huh? May have to look somewheres else. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

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Robert Stoll
83 SC
83 944

Do you ever want to sell your car? Ripping things out of your car to save a few pounds is going to drop a few pounds and lots of value to the car. 84 to 89 Carrera's I feel are too nice to do this to. Most of the weight is in interior panels and trim, seating, undercoating, glass, sunroof, sound deadening, things not easily changed.

This is why tub from a 69 to 73 coupe are popular project cars for track only events. You can start from a clean slate and build the car as light as you want. That is a future project my brother is considering. Did you install a roll bar/cage? Beside the protection, the feel of harness belts actually improves you driving. It sounds like your car has plenty of power. How about SSI's and exhaust? Stiffer torsion bars and shocks? Adjustable sway bars? Bigger wider wheels? If you have'nt done so, I feel 3.2 Carrera's need alot of suspension tweeking and were originally sprung to soft for the general public. I was amazed at the amount of body roll present at the track events last year. ( I had the opportunity to watch since my brother drives my car also). All the items I mentioned above I did this winter. I'm just waiting for the snow to clear so I can get the car aligned, negative camber set and corner balanced. Brakes: What kind of pads were you using? If your really heating up your brakes, get a performance race pad (Pagid orange, Performance Friction, Hawk). Hot brakes will eat up street/track pads fast. I burned a set of new front pads in a half day over the summer. The cooling duct are a good idea, I installed those on mine also. I think the brakes on your car are adequate, you just need to keep on top of them, (rotor wear, dust seal replacement, and of course pad inspection.) This year I am going to change out to racing pads at my events and bring an extra set all around! Enough of my BS. Good luck

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

I too have toyed with an idea to loose some weight (both myself and my 3.2 http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif).
Here are some of the IDEAS I´ve come up with:

Of course you´ll have to check what´s allowed to do under regulations of a particular racing class and road safety regulations too (for ex. when replacing bumbers and body panels by lightweight items).

The cheapest way is just to remove parts or replace them with fairly cheap lighter items.
- remove front fog lights, use holes to provide cooling air for the brakes (with ducting etc.)
- remove headlight cleaning system and intensive cleaning system. Make sure that there´s not unnecessary much fluid in the windscreen washer bottle. Consider fitting of a smaller and lighter bottle altogether.
- remove sparewheel, jack and compressor and replace them with a "puncture spray". Tools...hmm...make sure to be a member of a recovery organisation.
- consider a smaller battery (especially if you have "lightened" the electrical system too). The new high tech gel batteries should be lighter than the ordinary ones anyway.
- remove the front boot light.
- remove passenger sun-visor, clothes hooks, glovebox lock and front bonnet-opener lock (really...as per factory Club Sport) Or the whole glovebox lid.
- remove front door pocket lids.
- fit manually adjusted side mirrors/delete the one on passenger side.
- remove clock, fit a blanking plate. You might consider same for the stereo system.
- convert the automatic heating system to manual and get rid of the blowers in the footwells. Or remove the heating system altogether and get some headers to replace the heat-exchangers.
- remove the air-con system.
- remove rear wiper and the engine compartment light.
- remove sound insulation and underbody sealant.
- remove the rear seats.
- remove wheel center caps/replace with plastic blanking plates.

That was fairly cheap (except for that header thing), now some more expensive mods:

- replace front and rear bumbers and associated kit with glassfibre/kevlar ones.
- fit kevlar doors, lids, rear spoiler, front fenders.
- fit thinner glass/plastic side and rear windows.
- remove sunroof (new roof from a non-sunroof car).
- replace the door trim with lightweight items from 964 RS. Fit manual windows.
- If you are ok with 16" wheels, the Fuchs will be fine, if you need bigger ones, make sure that they won´t weigh too much. (my personal choice would be 964 RS mags).
- as for the braking systems, how about the new carbonfibre ones... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif


- this one actually adds weight and you may already have it, but a proper roll-over bar is highly recommended.

Removing weight from the front of the car can have negative effects on handling, but you can always play with the amount of fuel you are carrying onboard.

I´m sure you´ve already considered some of the things mentioned, but hopefully there are some fresh ideas too!


Mika




[This message has been edited by Mika (edited 01-09-2001).]

Mika, As you can see from your first set of options, how much weight do you think you save? Except from the removeable items, spare, etc, 25 to 50 lbs? Light bulbs, clocks? In a car with 100 lbs of undercoating? I guess thats my point. Unless your going to turn this into a track car and nothing else, removing these items might make you feel lighter, but will make little change in this car. Your second list will definetly make your car, and wallet, lighter, but I venture to guess you could buy a tub and make a track only car for the price these options cost.

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

89911,
I agree with everything you say.
My post was just getting so long, that rather than writing everything down, I thought everybody can probably read between the lines and draw their own conclusions about usefulness of butchering their interiors... Still, as you said it can make a difference in the feel of the car.

Mika

P.S. When you hit the roads, please report us about the effects of your mods.


[This message has been edited by Mika (edited 01-07-2001).]

Thanks for the replies.
I have done many of these suggestions- car does have a rollbar- Das Sport, installed so I can remove it without evidence of damage to the car. 5point installed- safety is important. Suspension has been changed, larger torsion bars, adjustable anti-sway bars, lowered, etc.
Actually I guess I have to admit the car is what it is, and unless I want to make it into a track only car- and the car is in MUCH to nice of condition to start ripping things apart - I may just have to leave things as they are. Car is a blast on the track and road--might have to spend money somewhere else-gee my kart needs a new motor
Thanks!!!!

There are 3 issues regarding weight,
first is sprung weight; it is difficult to remove lots of weight, but more importantly the weight that can be removed is at the ends of the car, for the small decrease in mass, ~30lbs, that f/g bumpers provide they make a huge difference in reduced polar moment. The car simply can turn more easily. The same can be said of exhausts such as ssi and a lighter muffler such as B&B/Fabiani etc. These have the additional benefit of providing hp/torque improvements. A lighter carbon fiber spoiler would be included in this catagry.
Second is unsprung weight, lighter wheels, tires, shocks, brakes, and suspension pieces are the candidates here, unfortunately dynamic needs posit larger wheels/tires so big $ must be spent to get the light weight.
Third is rotational mass, the lighter wheels and brakes from item 2 are the primary culprits here, again unfortunatly dynamic needs generally push for larger wheels/tires/brakes or spending really big $ to get the lighter weight(ceramic brakes come to mind ).
I have tried to keep thes 3 items in mind when modifying my car.
http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?userid=100

It was some time ago when I toyed with an idea to lighten my 3.2. In the end I decided against it:
- my car is in too good shape to start tearing it apart.
- it´s expensive business to loose serious weight and you never recoup your "investment"
- I wasn´t really sure I could live with such an extreme car.

So at the moment I have three options if I ever want a change/more power:

- to fit Turbo 2 (3.3/3.6) engine etc.
- sell the 3.2 and get a 964 RS
- sell the 3.2 and get a 993 (which model?, well that´s another story...)


Mika


[This message has been edited by Mika (edited 01-07-2001).]

I am not sure about your car but the seats in my 72 were about 15lbs. I think the interior looks just fine without the seat backs. There was also about 20 lbs of removable sound pads under the back seat and side panel area. You can take this out and noone would even know. There is also that engine sound pad. I think your sound pads are even thicker. Thats a few extra ponies for free with no real damage to the car. I myself bought a 71 coupe to make into a track car.

Speaking of weight reduction, has anyone replaced the electric windows in an SC with the manual windows?

Also when the heater blower is removed how do you hook the heat tubes up to the fan shroud? I am guessing I will need to get an older model shroud with outlets for the heater tubes..?

I do not like the power ones and the motors are heavy... Plus they eventually break no matter how good they are to begin with.

I took the liberty of removing the poor A/C today. I like A/C, but this thing was horrible. It leaked freon all th time and when it was full the thing could not keep the cabin comfortable. I guess in the summer I will just work an hour later to avoid the evening heat http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif Actually the car is just fine with the sunroof open in the summer besides a few sweltering days.

How much weight did you remove with the AC?
I agree, it doesn't work all that well anyway.
Thanks again

I removed the entire A/C system out of my '84 911 Targa about two years ago. This included the compressor, evaporaters, blowers, condensor, etc. This also included removing all the plumbing (i.e. hoses) from the car. Once you've done this, you are impressed with the Porsche engineers because they make max. use of all available space.

A couple of points to justify my insanity:
1. This 911 is a weekend driver and DE car only.
2. A/C never worked very well.
3. If its hot, I remove the roof.
4. I don't plan on selling the car.

That said, I estimate that I removed 40-50 lbs. from the car. One added benefit, is the entire right side (passenger) of the engine compartment is wide open. Changing plugs and doing valve adjustments is much easier now.

Regards, Bruce

Ditto BER.

Except I think the whole A/C system is more like 75 lbs.

I love the room in the engine compartment!!! No more skinned knuckles, I hope... Yah right who am I kidding http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Now if I could get rid of that darn heater blower the engine compartment would almost be naked.

Also I do not plan on selling this car. Some soccer mom will talking on her cell phone with a cup of Starbucks in the other hand while beating her kids in the back seat will have to smash me. Why society insists on putting the poorest drivers in the worst performing vehicles is beyond me. Maybe Firestone produced a faulty tire, but there is no reason to flip your car over it.




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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Chapter