can I show my car (concourse) with painted inlays on my center caps?

What abouth the black caps on the wheel enhancement pictures that have silver and black crests? Of course, this is for fuchs with black spokes. Also, what what kind of stuff would disqualify an entry in the stock original class? I haven't been to a concourse yet, but I was told I should bring my 85 targa and enter. I do not have the original radio or speakers. The rest of it is original. How perfect do these cars have to be to have a chance at placing?

[This message has been edited by R22tech (edited 01-10-2001).]

Dear friend,
I am sorry to say it, but you (and all the other concourse people) are a bunch of sad individuals. Porsches are made to be driven and enjoyed. I can honestly not think that all the engineers at Porsche spent so much time and effort to perfect the car, so that you can worry about the crests on your wheelcaps. Have a life!
Regards
Stef

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Warning: There is bad blood between the Concourse folks and the autocross/drivers ed gang. Crossover from one group to the other is not allowed.

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'83 SC

Depends on exactly what kind of concours you are entering.

At Pebble Beach, originality is tantamount.
At PCA National Parade events, the cars are also generally stock, but its not an absolute requirement, for example, you'd be ok with an aftermarket stereo in most classes (although kinda uncommon on the national level).

At PCA local events, originality doesn't really matter. Those are really just "clean car" contests.

You can tell what matters and what doesn't by calling ahead and getting a scoring sheet. That tells you exactly what they will look for.

Your chances of placing depends on where you are competing. At the PCA Parade level, it is very, very difficult. At local levels, it can be easy or difficult, depending on your location. For example, most of the local PCA events in So. Cal. (San Diego, LA, Long Beach, OC, SB, etc.) are usually pretty competitive in most classes.

Most people are spend a lot of time cleaning their car before their first concours, and then do much *worse* than they expect.

There are a lot of "tricks" that would be almost impossible for a first timer to know. (For example, in most PCA local events, if you leave your floor mats in, you will get points taken off!)

I've done it, and occasionally won at the local level, but have not participated in it in a long time. I must confess that it is hard for me to understand it. I like having a tidy car, but found that I really didn't enjoy the full toothbrush and q-tip thing, esp. when the car is gonna get dirty again in a week and wipe out all your hard work!

(BTW, in my region, cross-over is definately allowed, in fact, the people who both autocross and concours for some reason usually do really well in BOTH!)

[This message has been edited by Jim T (edited 01-10-2001).]

JEEZ! How can I be a concourse guy if I haven't been to a show yet? I've had my 911 for about three months-been to 130mph and back-mastered the art of shifting a 915 under the tooteledge of Marcus Bear cart racer and former 930 owner-I keep my foot planted through the corners-and I smoked a souped up 5.0 the first week I got it. It's not my fault that I like my cars original and have the ability to spend the extra dough to get a cream-puff. The fact is , I'd like to get her some ribbons or trophies before I have my way with her, on the road that is. Why? You ask... so when I'm done with her I can get premium money out of her.

Personally, dude, you should do whatever the f*ck you want to with your Porsche. And don't let some race weenie who's posted all of seven times make you feel bad for enjoying it. Nothing at all wrong with wanting to show off your pride and joy and maybe get a ribbon or trophy for it.

Concours is by its very nature detail-oriented on the looks of the car. Racing is by its nature detail-oriented on the engine and suspension. Looking at the car and its amazing aesthetics, I think the engineers at Porsche intended for the car to be gone over on both levels.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

hey R22tech,
you alright? man you shouldn't have any problems with your next few bowl movements w 2 arseholes. i'm gonna have to agree with mark s on this one.
bob
'68 911L

Well, do Almost anything you want with it. Even the kindly Warren might break out the halberd if you put a chevy engine in it.


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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Dear friend,if you don't find the responce that you are looking to your question,try somewhere else, DON'T let some negative responce get on your way,if you wish to show your car, clean it as much as your little hart desires but mostly ENJOY IT ,is your car.
Regards Juan

Now we're havin' some fun!! Race weenie???? Go Mark!!

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Robert Stoll
83 SC
83 944

The funny thing is-no one has answered my original question! The center caps: IF I show the car at a local, or national concours, do the center caps have to be plain black or is it o.k. to have painted crests or some other kind of color combo? My caps are faded, they look like a very dark copper to black. I really like the caps on the wheel enhancement site for the black fuchs! They are black with the crests being black and silver. My car is black.

Can't be a Race Weenie around here and get away with it,.. Especially a Seven Post Race Weenie. Gettum Mark.

Ask your local PCA. They'll Know.
I think triple black shouldn't have silver.
Go Black!

BTW 911 RACER, whats up with that reply?

Check out the music post , get in your car and chill out!

R22, I must admit that I don't know the answer to your question either, but wanted to take a second and comment on the reaction you generated because it was very out of character for this board. I have long made peace with myself, knowing that I don't have the patience and attention to detail necessary to get my car up to concourse level appearance, but I envy people who can achieve that level of perfection. As one of the earlier posts pointed out, the concourse winners are ofter race winners. People who care that much about their cars and have that attention to detail are likely to be good at both. As you probably know from posting before, this is usually a very friendly board. The regulars go out of their way to make everyone welcome, from newbies like me to serious professionals. Even people who start threads trashing people who like other (albeit lesser) cars are gently reminded to live and let live. So I suspect (and hope) that the earlier posts were at least partly toungue in cheek and not meant to be as harsh as they sounded. Others can tell you better than I that kind of response is almost unheard of here. Good luck in your class and I hope you find the actual answer to your question soon. Someone here knows it, and can probably recommend a time saving method of acheiving the perfect gloss on the hub and the rims.

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MRM 1984 Carrera Cab Eurospec

Seriously, join your local PCA chapter and get started there. They have Wash and shine thru Concourse, and at the local club inspection they teach you how to judge and how to move up in categories. It goes all the way from clean, to impeccable undercarriages with no undercoating and everywhere in between.In any event enjoy, it doesn't really matter which avenue you choose,you'll always be around people who love Porsches.

I have already joined the pca-peachstate region. Haven't yet been to a meeting. I'm not turned off by the reactions I'm getting-but I do have to say: Why would anyone not take extreme care of such a work of art? Even a racer. I raced bikes in my younger years at a professional level and I always kept it like new-in fact, better than new! These machines are faster and more precise when they are cleaned to perfection! Think of all the drag created by a dirty paint job. What about those brakes? Do you think they stop better with all that break dust on them? You get the picture.

Go for it. I've considered taking my daily driver to a concours event.

In my area, the concours folks are the "Moustache Pete's" and are in effective control of the local PCA, according to my understanding. The autocross crowd feels it is getting by with table scraps, in terms of chapter resources. Again, according to the grumblings I have overheard. Guess the concours grumblings would sound different. But there definitely seems to be rifts between these groups, commonly.

I think I speak for this BBS community when I say all kids are required to play nice in our sandbox. If you can't, you'll have to take a nap.

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'83 SC

R22-
1. Welcome to the board.
2. As far as concourse stuff goes, you're probably barking up the wrong tree at this board. Most of the people here PRIDE themselves on tweaking and modifying their cars. I'm no exception. So I agree- head to some PCA meetings.
3. Congrats on your new purchase. I applaud your interest in concourse competition. I dichotomize 911s as follows. First, some jackass ruined the car beyond reasonable originality/repair. It becomes a project/track car for fun purposes. Second, it's in reasonable--->outstanding shape, and deserves restoration/preservation in original condition. Should still be driven and enjoyed but should stay far away from my Krylon-can and body-tape-wielding SCCA buddies.
4. To maximize your posting pleasure, you are advised to refrain from disclosing information about drag-racing and anything involving "smoking 5.0's." 911's aren't drag racers- keep it up and you can kiss your 1st gear syncro goodbye. Juan already got berated for his drag racing accounts...
5. "Tu-tel-age!!!" Sorry. I edit and proofread quite a bit professionally. Couldn't resist.

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

Its rather cool that we all have different interests with in the realm of being automobile enthusiasts. Sorry that I don't know the answer to your question, but I applaud your maintaining your 911 in cream puff condition.

Back in the 70s when I first starting going to the Auctions I would leave depressed. I love cars, but these guys were so anal about them and if these cars were to be used all that added $ and time would be back to square one.

During that time I remember spying a Ferrari 250GT short wheelbase sitting in a lot in Manhattan Beach. The panels were quite straight but the paint was faded and had a few scratches. The black leather seats had slight wear and scuffing. The car had had a bath that month, but it looked like the car was used for some good spirited driving. That remains in mind as one of the most inspiring cars ever.

The beauty of "form and purpose," and to that I add "condition of purpose," and that is too drive it. Perhaps the most beautiful to me is "THE PATINA OF TIME AND USE." See page 44 of the November 1999 issue of 911 and PORSCHE WORLD.

Respectfully, Dan