Trade or sell 3.2 engine for 3.3t engine?

Hey guys I have my self a dilema, I've just added a turbo body kit to my 84 Carrera and just the body isn't enough. I need the power of a turbo engine. I'm debating if I should sell my very relible, strong 3.2 engine to offset the cost of buying a 3.3 or keep it and buy the 3.3 anyways. I don't use the car for a daily driver anyway just weekends but my thinking is that if I kept the 3.2 I could always just put old faithful back in should something go wrong with the turbo set up. I thought of trying to get more power out of the 3.2 but after talking to a fellow I know who builds and races 3.3s he figured I'd be better of going to a turbo engine to get the results I'm after. Any thoughts?

A lot of the guys around here seem to lean toward putting a higher powered normally aspirated engine on those types...a 3.6 for example. Seems like you could get 300hp out of a 3.6 with a few mods...

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Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

Don't forget superchargers. I think you can get as much, if not more power from one for less money than a full blown (pardon the pun) 3.3 stock Turbo setup and installation. You would also not pay the price of extra weight and lag.

Let me say now that I am a HUGE turbo fan. I just sold a very powerful Buick Grand National. Turbo mods are easy, plentiful, and astonishing. You can get more power from a turbo than a supercharger, but the drivability in the twisties is something to consider. I have only driven a few, newer Turbo 911's and must admit they are very tricky in the decreasing radii of the world. True that can be a fun challenge, but the thought of lag at apoint in a turn that I NEED power makes me think Normally aspirated or supercharged cars are superior on the streets.

[This message has been edited by VIPRKLR (edited 01-12-2001).]

I'm doing the same thing with my SC. I plan to sell the 3.0L when the 3.3T is finished. Hopefully it will sell while still in the car so its strengths can be proven. The 3.0L is very strong and reliable, but I know me - once the big power is in I'll never go back.

VIP - here's a twist some won't like. I plan to supercharge the 3.3T. I'm a HotRod guy, gotta have torque and lots of it. Low compression, strong internals, YEA BABY! Soon I will sell everything off the longblock from the air cleaner to the muffler - a complete turbo motor minus the motor Ha!



[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 01-12-2001).]

Before Juan sees this I must comment on the merits of adding a Turbo to a 3.2!.
Juans car has all the "nippyness!" of the regular Carrera and drivability around town, but when he lets it rip! it has way more grunt than my standard 86.
My experience of the older (79) 930 was heavy, sluggish off the mark, light on the front end and long gears!.
Juans car does'nt even have an intercooler yet!. So i believe the boost is about .5 bar.
I personally, after sampling Proto Tech's Turbo Carrera (Juan Ruiz) I would reccomend it- IF you already have put alot of money upgrading and don't want to sell your current car.
IF however I was weighing up converting from scratch a standard Carrera /against Buying a complete Turbo I would buy a complete Turbo and further boost performance as you already have all the trimmings fitted (brakes suspension, tie rods etc.
(Buy an 89 turbo or change the tranny at least- for starters!)
Definately talk to Juan and or Proto Tech before you change your engine (if it is good shape!)
rgds Ben



[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 01-12-2001).]

Here's more food for thought. The SOK whipplecharger claims over 400HP for the Carrera installation. Cost is around $7K.

Rarly, are you building that motor in your kitchen? I think I see a toaster and a blender back there.

Sounds an interesting project RarlyL8
Have you had any feedback from direct sources on the practicality of the Whipple supercharger?
I posted some stuff a while back but noone seems to have practical knowledge or 1st hand experience of these beasts!.
Someone once posted they had a friend the autx'd an SC with a Paxton which had 260BHP at the rear wheels.
Only thing is they are not as expandable as a Turbo. So that seeking for more power kinda ends there. But 400BHP sounds plenty to be happy with!.
rgds Ben



[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 01-12-2001).]

Rarly L8,YEA Baby,well lets start i am a fan or horsepower ,turbo,supercharger nos,the mother in law,i don't care of course i choose #1,but you will be the very first person that i can be related direct to the supercharge proyect,if you don't mind sharing i will love to hear all your coments concerning this set up, since i choose #1 we can compere the out come(this is NOT a competition,i only want to evaluate the two products)i got a total of $4995 for my set up installed and that included the piping,air cleaners,proper oil lines,turbo,turbo manifold,chip and what ever i forgot,to that i have to add $200 more for a boost gauge,and a digital gauge to monitor the air in/out of the turbo(whichs i know you could do the whole proyect for around $3000 or less) for that as we know we got 276hp at the wheels, with this figures we could do a even evaluation of both products,i hope you don't mind is all in the name of sport.
Regards Juan
www.geocities.com/titos88911/MY911.HTML

Hey ORB that's funny! I remodeled my (our) kitchen a couple of years ago and put the old cabinets to use in the garage. That picture is kind of dated, the motor is down to its last bolt right now. A friend of mine is an Indycar mechanic that does Porsches on the side. He's helping me through the build (read making sure I don't make any rookie mistakes). The motor didn't need to be rebuilt, I just wanted to be sure it was sound and to add stronger rod bolts and head bolts. I'm doing the research on which roots-type blower to use, and induction systems. This thing has got to (1) have torque out the ass, (2) look really nice, and (3) be very simple. All following the basic hotrod theme. The easy way would be to leave it alone with the turbo. I just could not handle the massive amount of crap piled on that thing. It weighed 529 pounds in full dress. It should lose 100+ pounds by the time I'm finished. This means I will not have to put 930 torsion bars in the car! Another plus.
Thank you for the enthusiasm. I'll keep you all updated (it will take some time though, wife, kids, demanding job, you all know the drill).
Hey Juan! Get a rollcage and a harness, man - you never know when a riceburner may torque steer right into you!

RarlyL8 - have you done any research on the compression ration best suited for your intended supercharger? Just thinking out loud, but it seems that Normally aspirated engines can use high compression realitive to octain and tubos use much lower compression due to pretty high boost and volume (say over 15 PSI) It would seem to me that a super charger would need to fall in between... IT can not produce the COMBINATION of air mass and pressure like a turbo can, so perhaps a slightly higher compression might be in order.

If you know this already, I would be most curious to hear the fact, as the above is just a dumb theory from a non-Porsche having bumb (sold my car today

Hey Juan I checked out your link, your car looks identical to what my car did look like, same color. It now has turbo flares C2 turbo bumpers with front splitter, car sits very low now! With your turbo system what mods are necessary to safely raise the boost from .5 bar? How would the car run with DME system if you lowered the compression ratio? Could you raise the boost with just an intercooler and new rod and head studs? I'm just thinking if I went the same route you have gone and wanted more power If a lower compression ratio is the only alternative, then you would lose the pep of the 3.2 you were originally trying to preserve. Now I really don't know what I should do! Thanks Matt

Matt,the next step in which im working at the moment,will be to install a massive intercooler and a msd ignition, with that we will move from 7 PSI of boost to 9 PSI and thats all i can get(unless eddie bellos has a different idea)from that point the only way to go will be to lower the compression THEN we will run 15-17 psi (1.0 bar or so)and should be in the 500 hp range,as you i have my own dilemas because for the builder to do this it will cost around 10,000-12,000 estimated, i start to getting the prices to do it my self and im around 7,500 which i included,head work,gasket kit,new pistons,rod bolts,and a few other things,as you all know im a diesel mechanic and i work on engines that have a 380 mm bore and up, so the overhaul is no problem even that i have never done a porsche engine,but i have the most inportant tool YOU GUYS!! so no problem,but my garage size may be and time which i don't have because i travel so much.To be honest with you the set-up that i have is real nice for the average normal human been,but i just love this staff and i need more.if i can help you or anyone else feel free to contact me,i enjoy helping others.
Regards Juan
P.S. ITS Saturday!!!!on my way to fill her up with 103!

Carrera owners will be watching you Juan. I think you are going where no 3.2 has gone before!
As for the 3.3T, the compresion ratio is 7:1 for this motor. Turbos are more component in nature allowing increases of power from different sorces. I don't believe you can safely get much more power out of a turbo vs a supercharger. More boost, more power, the limiting factors are detonation and rod bolts/head studs. Both applications can utilize inter or aftercoolers. The biggest difference is the torque curve. I expect the supercharger will test the limits of the 915. The majority of my experience with various blowers has been with domestic V8s. This is new territory for me so I'm going to play it conservative and crank up the boost slowly. I spoke with SOK a while back about this application. They said they have done it for a customer who races the car. It was good for 400HP at the rear wheels. He had campaigned the car for one season with no difficulties. They would build my engine for me (for $8K) but would not sell me components. The only advice I got was that I would fail. Guess these guys are just a little arrogant.
I've told the story a few times about my PCA buddy who raced his whipplecharged SC all over the country (260HP to the rears). I learned quite a bit from his mistakes. He could successfully run 0.8 bar boost on 92 octane fuel with stock compression. The lower numbers on the 3.3T give me more room to work with.
At this stage I can still go with any turbo/supercharger configuration. This is total hotrod playtime euphoria for me. If there is a 911 boosting expert out there speak up! We're all ears.
Matros - if you don't need the seed money for the turbo you can keep the 3.2 around until the bugs are worked out of your swap. Nice peace of mind! This swap has been done a lot and I doubt anyone has gone back!

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 01-13-2001).]

You see !! thats the same bull i had to go thru so they have to built it and then what?that was a big factor for me,i told you guys the story about the people that offer me a supercharger only if i promise no to return it, because i be bore with it,thats what took me 1 1/2 year doing research,why can we found some one that has a supercharge and stand up and answer all our qs? i will love to heard them,never mind that in my searchings i found some people installing ford mustang chargers on porsche with a home made piping,thats another story,i try to get a different company in and outside of us for chargers other than knoxville,Not one company anywhere australia,canada,europe you name it if there out there i don't know where
i wanted to install a supercharger so baddd! but i feel that the end of the road was to close.well thats good for now.
Regards Juan

Hey Juan - I've been conversing with many blower/turbo shops. There is one guy you need to talk to that is also creating a custom supercharging setup. He is using an SC motor pumped up to 3.2L, haltech engine management, Eaton blower, intercooler, and a 3.2 intake. the car is an early 911 with 993TT body. He either lives in Florida or California, I don't recall. See his website: www.mark.hargett.com

Hey, Rarly!

A big 6-71 blower ought to get the job done! Might need a separate built-up tail section even bigger than a 935, though. Sure would make for an interesting-sounding 911, to say the least! Might need a periscope to see out the back, like some of the 962s as well!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

My biggest problem is that I live in Canada. There are quite a few porsches around but when it comes to modifications no one around here has a damn clue! Seattle is a close drive so last summer I went there to do some poking around some of the Porsche specialty shops to see what these guys thought of going turbo or supercharger. Paul Weir is SOK installation center for the west coast and when I talked to them they told me I couldn't install a supercharger kit myself. I like you Juan am a Diesel mechanic and and quite sure I could handle such a task. When I got home I contacted SOK and asked them directly if i could install there kit and they told me being a mechanic it should be no problem, the fellow I talked to was quite upset that Paul Weir would tell me otherwise! Another problem I face is our ****ty dollar so buying things from south of the border Is quite expensive but I just simply can't buy it here so I have to bite the bullet, thats why I have to weigh my options and decide which route to go and get your guys input. Thanks Matt

Actually Warren, your joke isn't that far off. I'm thinking of a 144ci unit (~4-71) sitting to one side of that big fan shroud. Obviously I don't want anything sticking out of the wing. There lies a distinct line between hotrod and freakshow.

Matt - I've seen supercharged engines for sale now and then, another option. I do think that a warmed over 3.3T swap would be better if resale is anywhere down the line.

Rarly,

Actually, I was thinking along the lines of a flush NACA duct feeding your blower, not a big 'Rat Fink' cartoon with the blower scoop sticking up out of the tail! Of course, the optimum location for the NACA duct would be just aft of the center highpoint of the roof, like the 962 intake on the Lowenbrau cars!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa