BMW M Coupe.....don't do it bro!

My brother has decided he wants to blow about 35 grand on a sports car. He's never reallly been into Porsche cars but likes driving my 88 Carrera on occasion. He has his mind set on a BMW M coupe, the small odd looking roofed versions of the M powered Z3. We share each others cars quite often so I am on a mission to try and get him to get a P car. Maybe stretch the budget to an older 993. What do you guys think of the M Coupe? After an initial reaction of 'whooa, that looks stupid....' the design is growing on me, apparenltly, they are a blast to drive too..............mmmmm, maybe he should just get the bimmer..........

Beetos,

Why don't you suggest an '89 Speedster, or maybe Turbolook ... comonality of chassis and engine sure could be useful in the long run ... service manuals, spare parts, etc.

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

I think the Z3s are pretty cool little cars. Certainly a lot of fun to ride around in. The M Coupe is actually a fairly serious sports car, IMHO, at least for auto-x and club racing; the only real problem with them that I can see is the cost of parts and the inability to work on the car yourself.

Of course, he may not want to work on the car at all. This can be a plus. Truth be told though, people get tired of writing checks for things they could normally do themselves - plugs, oil changes, etc. That's the one thing that keeps me from getting into a post '89 911.



------------------
Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

One other thing wrong with it--it's just about the ugliest thing to ever have four wheels attached to it.

My wife calls it "the shoe". I agree.

blue
suede shoes

Tell him to try the M3 before the M Coupe. Better rear suspension. Marginally heavier and marginally slower than the M Coupe, used to kick my buddy's butt in AUTO X in his M Coupe (99 M Coupe vs. 97 M3) I definitely respect both of these fantastic cars and their capabilities though, even though I now own a 73 911S.

Brad

I have to admit to owning and really enjoying several BMW's, in particular a 535i(great 4-5 passenger car). Re: M cars...I have a good friend who traded his 90 M3 in for a new M Roadster (ALMOST talkeh him into a 911) and he's let me drive it a few times. The car is absolutely incredible. Rock solid,rides like it's on rails, and stunningly fast. I'll always have a 911 but it will likely share the garage with a BMW, maybe an early 90's M5
Buck
88 Coupe

Well Bimmers are nice,But if he chooses to purchase (that miata wants to be)he should purchase the M type,much nicer and fast too!or a convertible M3 is thats the case of course, nothing like a PORSCHE,NOTHING..
My 0.02
Regards Juan
www.geocities.com/titos88911/MY911.HTML

Pretty much agree with all the above. I nearly bought a 97 M3 before my Carrera and I would definately look at one again. The thing that gets me is the M coupe's styling, it may look a certain way from one angle, and totally different from another. A definately love or hate shape. My bro is not the type to get his hands dirty, he makes me get mine dirty for him! He is not prepared to get into a pre 993 911, and the 993's are still a little out of his price range. One thing that put him off the open top P cars was the scuttle shake in my old 944 S2 (mind you, he has never driven in a Boxster....no shakes there and probably the best open top chassis going).

Anyway, he's off to drive an M powered Z3 drop top tommorrow. If it scuttle shakes too much for him, he wants the roofed M coupe..........I don't mind sharing the Carrera with him for any of these two M powered bimmers!

[This message has been edited by beetos (edited 01-15-2001).]

I posted this question about a half year ago. My brother has looked at about a half dozen M3 coupes. I got to drive a few. The car needs alot of work to get it stiff enough. The seating position is too high. The steering vague. The engine and brakes are great. They are great cars unless your use to driving 911's (we share mine at DE weekends and he is always faster then me), then, other cars just don't feel as responsive. Save some money for the new M3...A better and faster car then the new 996 at about $40,000 less. Pay attension, Porsche.

------------------
8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

[This message has been edited by 89911 (edited 01-15-2001).]

Just read road and track last night with a comparison b/w the new M3 (333 HP) and the 911 (300 HP). They threw a Corvette into the mix just for price point comparison. The BMW equaled or exceeded the 911 in almost all categories , except price!!!!!!!
The automotive press has beeen raving about this beemer, it is a sports car despite the extra seats!
A choice to make: a New BMW M3, A new Boxter S, or a 4 or 5 year old 993. Or perhaps a mint 89 Carrera and a new BMW mini cooper for the same Price!!!!!!

One thing in common: they are all German, andwe all know they truly have cars figured out.
BTW I like the SHOE



------------------
Bob
1982 911SC Targa
PCA - Founders Region

A lot of you are missing the point. An M3 is NOT an M Coupe. They are completely different animals. I almost got an M3, and often drive a 1999 M Coupe Euro spec (321hp) for sale. The M Coupe has been hailed by all magazines as a modern day 911. It is twitchy at its limits (tail happy) and for a lot less money, will beat a lot more expensive cars, 911s included. The looks are striking, you either hate it or love it. I have gotten more looks in that car than in anything else. That could be a good or bad thing
Right now I am sort of in the middle of the same as your brother. Keep the M Coupe, get a 1994 C2, or get a 1988 930 cab. Everytime I do the mental exercise, the M comes on top in terms of performance and ease of use/maintenance. If your brother is not mechanically inclined, this could be a good thing.
Either choice is fine. M Coupe is perhaps more "practical" (it does have a huge trunk) and less "mechanically in need of work" than a 911. But its no 911.....

Let's face it. The M-Coupe is ugly. However it's a great driving machine and as mentioned before it's tail happy and fun to drive. However you get the same engine in a M3 + better looks and practicality. I'd recommend the M3. Anyway the sound of that straight six is awesome: www.carpassion.com (film clips).

The question about Porsche vs BMW should not be asked here

PORSCHE - There is no substitute

PORSCHE - Fahren in seiner schönsten Form

A question that could be asked is "What direction is Porsche headed?" By producing cars like the new M3, at least BMW is attempting to appeal to the sports car soul of yesteryear. From the frequest post of how everybody dislikes the new 911/Boxster, the same can't be said of Porsche. What new car are the gving to us....The Carrera GT? At least I can think about buying a new M3, ( I'm not, I love my old 911). If you had $50,000 and wanted a new car, what choice do you have, and don't tell me a used 993 because this car would kick its ass.

------------------
8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

It does kind of have the AMC Gremlin look to it, but I like it.


M Coupe


------------------
Bill Krause
'79 911SC Euro

Um...I'd take a 993 over an M3 any day. Sometimes it's not about kicking ass (and I have trouble grasping that idea).

I hate to make a comparison, but: sure, a Subaru WRX is a formidable competitor to a 911 in a rally situation. A BMW is a formidable competitor to the 911 in road racing. A bicycle would be a formidable competitor to the 911 in a race through a department store. :P

A 911 is a 911 is a 911. There's no substitute.

------------------
Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

89911
There's no doubt that we "Porsche-people" here at the PP board are all loyal to Porsche and thus recommends buying Porsches.

However you have a point. BMW is coming closer. So are other makes. This is exactly why I constantly babble on and on about the 996. It used to be "There is no substitute", but as things are I'm not so sure. A Ferrari 360 will give a 996 a hard fight and so will a BMW M3 (off course for entirely different reasons).

Now that one can't get "a 911" (by that I mean the type I consider to be a genuine 911) anymore I would certainly (if I had the money to buy a new sportscar) look at other cars than Porsche. Porsche has partly "reduced" itself to be "just another sportscar maker" in my opinion.

Still I remain extremely loyal to all things Porsche (due to the older aircooled 911s). BTW sorry for leaving the original subject

Said this before, but I had a 97 M3 (yes I know that's not the same as the M Coupe), and I sold it. The engine was very sweet, for sure. But for the considerable cost, the car was seriously lacking in character as well as build quality. At 6 months it had more rattles and breakdowns than my 30 year old 911, and had required over $3500 in warranty repairs. I dreaded owning this car out of warranty.

Also, even the M-cars require significant suspension mods to feel as "planted" as a Porsche. The car always felt "floaty" to me > 70mph and if I had kept it I would've wanted to tighten it up a bit.

The M Coupe is a little stormer but the handling is very different from a 911. The rear suspension struggles to cope with the torque and the car does not have traction control, unlike the M3, which makes it really easy to get loose in the rain or on slippery roads -- remember the weight is over the front wheels unlike the 911.

With the new M3 coming out I would consider "going back" but it would not be a replacement for my 911, rather a daily driver to save the 911 for weekends/events.

I know there are many pluses to a new car, but if it were me I'd go for a really nice 930 or 964 over the M Coupe. They will hold their value better too (my M3 depreciated over $400/month in the first 2 years!)

Chris C.

[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 01-16-2001).]

I want to be clear. I am not talking about the new M Coupe but the 2001 M3 yet to be seen on our roads. This car has 330 normally aspirated HP's. 0-60 in less then 5 sec. Faster then the 996 911. Completely variable rear differential. Read any report about it. That is what I don't understand about loyalty. I am loyal to highperformance cars like 911's, especially older ones. As other cars come along are faster and more attainable to the average buyer, it would be easy to state that they may be faster, but they are not a 911. Come on. If it is not a question of kicking ass, ie all out performance from a car, then what is it about. What is it "Accept no substitute"**** (even though there are other cars out there that are faster). Porsche had that years ago and that is why I bought the car I have. To simply state it is not a 911 to any competition that comes out is is an arguement in denial. Did you ever think, that some competion would be good? Mercedes is also coming out with an AMG version of their Kompressor next year. Perhaps both of these maunfactures see the void that Porsche has left in a "reasonably" affordable NEW car.

------------------
8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

If I had $50K to blow on a car I'd build an RS replica out of an early 911T with a 3.6 TT motor. And then I'd buy a fully restored 1946 Indian Chief with the leftover cash.

blue

I've not had the chance to drive the M Coupe before but I have tried the E36 M3 and if they are alike at all, I would not hesitate to say go for the Porsche.

For me, the E36 M3 was one of the great disappoinments. In early 96', we had a drag race between my friend's non-varioram 993 tiptronic which I was driving and a friends 286bhp euro M3 and the 993 was ahead all the way to 110mph which was totally unexpected. I was driving the 993 and after selecting 1st gear for the start, all I did was keep it planted till we backed off. I'd hate to see what a 6sp would've done. The M3 owner upgraded to one of the first 321bhp 6sp models 5 months later and during a spirited drive together with the 993, the M3 was keeling over in corners where the 993 was just totally flat and stable. And the BMW never feels as fast as the figures - the M Power straight 6 is so smooth and linear in power delivery that you keep thinking to yourself that this can't be 321bhp? I understand the US models have shorter ratios though so they may feel more urgent but they do have 81bhp less so I doubt it.

That M3 owner and another M3 owner that I know have both changed to 964 C2s and are not at all tempted by even the E46 model. If you can get a late model 964c2 (93' on where all the bugs have been ironed out) for the 35k budget, then your brother should at the very least go for a test drive. Factor in the vast aftermarket for him to customise the car to his spec then he will realise that there is no substitute. But I'm not biased. Really