when import jacks go wrong- CAUTION- scary pics.
 

was jacking up the rh side of my '73 yesterday when a pin on my floor jack broke. quarter panel hit the jack. NEVER NEVER NEVER have ANY part of your body under a car while jacking. and when putting in jackstands, make sure they are the first thing under the car as you slide them in. fortunately I know a bodyman ( LOL-me) so the damage is well on it's way to being fixed. PLEASE be careful when jacking, 911's are light cars but they'll still squish you dead. Don.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1176526988.jpg

Ouch. Glad you are okay.

was thinking this yesterday when placing jack stands under my big arss van! My son was helping me and could not understand why I was pushing the jack stands under with a stick.

Thanks for advice Don...

haycait911,

Thanks for the thread! What manufacturer and jack model did this?

God's way of telling you your car is too clean. Stop working on it and drive it. :)

Please post a picture of the jack and the broken pin.

ON this note, when you reach under the car to put your jack stands in place (or what ever else you reach under for) always lay on your side and reach under the car with your lower arm. If the car does fall, likely nothing will happen to your arm - worst case it will be pinched.

If you use your upper arm and the car falls, you'll probably dislocate your shoulder, break your elbow, possibly both your radius and ulna etc... Just because your car will make contact with your upper arm before anything else on it's way down.

It's a simple thing to keep in mind JUST IN CASE.

Just a guess. Mastercrap stands?

I have some reasonably good 'large-ish' stands, which after further inspection don't look all that good. I will either re-weld them or bolt the braces, the welds look like crap. I have seen some stands that are cast or stamped, not welded, I think they would be safer. The problem I have found is that the good stands are way too high, too heavy, and too awkward. But the 'nice size' stands are sub-standard imported crap.

It's nice to be able to buy a spatula for $0.49, and a winter coat for $29.00, but I don't rely on a spatula to protect my life. Sometimes you want to pay more for better quality, but thanks to Wal-mart and the race to the bottom, there is only crap for sale.

I would strongly suggest you look at Napa, or an automotive supply shop for jack-stands. Don't go to C-T or Walmart. Spend a few extra bucks. This is a legitimate place to go overboard.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt in the mishap.

Made in China; Guaranteed (to break).

NEVER buy a piece of junk from the distributors of Chinese crap. This is not the first off-shore POS I've seen break.

If you can afford the car, you can afford a good jack.

Best,

Tom

He is posting about a floor jack, not jack stands. :)

Thanks for the heads-up and glad it isn't worse.

I made up something different for jacking:

7/8" key stock about 7-8" long with a 3/4" NC nut welded on and a short 3/4" bolt.
There is a jacking plate devise available for this but there is a great disadvantage: The jack arm can slip off the plate when lifting.
The key stock gadget is cheap to make and works better than the jacking plate. :)

The picture shows a bottle jack just for estra safety.
When lifting with a floor jack, I turn the key stock so that the 3/4" bolt faces down and rests in the cup of the jack arm.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1176562001.jpg

My error. I still believe what I said applies to floor jacks and jack stands. Don't buy crap. Fork out some cash for Hein-Werner jack.

I would be equally suspicious of any Chinese floor jacks made of aluminum that are welded together. Aluminum is difficult to weld and given that the Chinese jack stands made of steel are failing I would never trust their aluminum welds.

P.S. That is a very good jack stand shown in your photo. It is what everyone should be using.

BS on the china bashing.
I've had american crap break on me too.
That is, if you can actually find american crap anymore.
There are good tools and bad tools. With a clue you can tell the difference most of the time, but just looking at where they were made will not do it.

Fair enough, but the reality is the 'cheap stuff' is all made in China. And legal liability issues in the U.S.A. make in unlikely that a cheap/sub-standard jack or stand would be manufactured in N.A. Lawsuits are of no concern to the Chinese. And that goes double for the crap that is sold from the trunk of someones car, rather than through a real distributor.

So I will rephrase it to say don't buy cheap floor jacks or jack stands. If you find a 'Made in America' jack stand it could easily be crap too. And, it may be possible to find a good jack-stand or floor jack made in China.

When you buy a tool that could put your life at risk (or your limbs) look at what you are buying and think about the consequences. Caveat emptor.

i bought a floor jack just recently...it is from a company called AMERICAN FOUNDRY. i swear, the thing is almost red, white and blue. it has a made in china sticker on it. i was bummed. my next floor jack is one of the high end ones that wayne sells. but i wont trust any floor jack enough to climb under a load.

I won't post pics of the jack, I'm too embarrassed. it wasn't very good. maybe it's different in the states but in canada it's tough to find stuff made in canada or the us. craftsman, mastercraft, napa, ultrapro, etc. are largely made overseas. my car is clean because I just got it on the road, I drive it to work every day and as much as possible on the weekends. here is a pic of my stands, they are the only jackstand I truly trust. they were made by a machinist friend of mine. thanks for your concern. I also have/recommend a big block of wood that I put under the car when I'm working, just cuz. I should have the quarter in primer by the end of the day, paint it next weekend. Donhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1176568485.jpg
ps to gunter. I'll probably spot in the burnt paint on my wheel opening lips at the same time. putting on some fake 7" fuchs this weekend until I find some real ones.

Don:
We need to see a picture, fezz up!
Next time you're at Canadian Tire, take a look at a floor jack called: "Michelin", about 2-3 ton?
Special at times for about $70.-
Not very low but not bad concidering the price and, it lifts up to about 23"

You guys are scaring me. I am about to get out my Canadian Tire jack and stands. The blue Michelin ones. I stayed away from the black and red Workforce ones. Any concerns with the Michelin stands or should I be shelling out big bucks for the AC stands sold by our host (a pay a fortune for shipping!)?

Lawrence

I have a nice high lift 2-1/2 ton jack I picked up at princess auto but that wasn't the one I was using. I can't get a pic of the old jack, it's already in the scrap metal pile at work. it was like the ones you see at walmart that come with two equally fine jackstands for about $50. Lawrence, don't get freaked out, just look at the welds and if they seem questionably have somebody weld them properly for you. three words- BLOCK OF WOOD. get the offcut of a gluelam beam or similar. great peace of mind. how do you like your pit Gunter? I'd like to put one in but with our water table here it'd be more of a small swimming pool. Don.

billroth - post a picture and will criticize the crap you bought.

haycait - look for a Hein-Werner jack, or buy an expensive one from Princess.

http://www.jackxchange.com/products/HW93642.cfm

Here is a good site for general jack info:

http://www.hyjacks.com/H2.HTM

Junk can be made any where, many factories in China are much newer and have better technology than their counterparts elsewhere, make an informed decision and hope for the best.

billroth:
Michelin makes different sizes, what ratings do you have for floor jack and jack stands?
If the rating on the jack stands is 2-ton, the base is too small for safety.
Look at my picture and use back-up.
People buy a lot of crap because it's cheap.


Don:
You had a better jack and used the crappy one?
The pit is essential; don't know how folks can look after any car without it. I am in a flood plain and have about 10" of water but only during May/June; dry the rest of the year.

Re: when import jacks go wrong- CAUTION- scary pics.
 

Where were you lifting the car that when the jack released it smashed the quarter panel there?

Who is keeping metrics on jacking on the engine case seam?

Re: Re: when import jacks go wrong- CAUTION- scary pics.
 

I would never jack my car up by the engine case seam unless the wheels/tires are still on the rear of the car just in case of a failure like this. That way the tires and suspension absorb the impact instead of the case if your jack does fail.

Re: Re: when import jacks go wrong- CAUTION- scary pics.
 

What exactly do you mean??????????:confused:

Re: Re: Re: when import jacks go wrong- CAUTION- scary pics.
 

The cost/damage caused by lifting by the case seam vs. other methods (lift pad see saw. jack socket etc.)

There have been 3-4 debates over whether lifting by the engine case causes damage in the last year.

Now you guy's have me thinking. My jack $130, and stands $30 for the small ones and $60 for the larger ones ( 5 ton cap.).
I bought it all from Princess Auto 7 years ago.
One thing I do is put the wheels under the car as insurance.

All this talk of failing stands - I am getting paranoid. I was under my Jeep on stands all day today (front axle CV boots and front diff pinion seal). Everytime I accidentally even brushed one of the stands my heart stopped for a second...

At least with the jeep, when the wheels are on I can get under it for oil changes/whatever without even having to jack it up.

It's always good to be cautious, but the original post was about a hydraulic floor jack failing, not a jack stand.

Buy good equipment and use some common sense before climbing under a car on jack stands. I usually place my wheels under the car and/or use an additional jack stand as insurance.

So, Don, the question is still open:
What lifting-point on the car did you use?
Where, exactly, did you put the crappy jack that it would hit the panel in that fashion?

Maybe Don is regretting this post right about now... :)

Gunter's 'really good jack stand' looks exactly like the 6-ton Chinese crap stand I bought at HF for $20 a pair.

Just inspect the stuff before you buy it; I'm guessing if you have a Porsche and work on it yourself, you probably possess a modicum of technical savvy to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Anybody who feels "if it's American-made it must be the best there is" has clearly never owned many GM or Ford vehicles.

In jack stands, I looked for heavy stamped steel construction, well-executed welds in the right places, a wide and solid base, general ruggedness and consistent quality of finish - i.e. looking at five sets of the same stands trying to find flaws. Then I chose ones that were over-rated for the weight they would be holding up by a factor of three or more.
For the floor jack I looked for all of the above plus inspected the most likely points of failure (pins in lift arm, cylinder mounting, wheel mounts, thickness of cylinder casting).

At some point, you have to make a judgement call on whether spending another $300 for something American made and just as rugged is a worthy investment for your purposes.

I bought the HF 3 ton floor jack for $44.99 on sale and the 6-ton stands for $19.99 a pair. They are both Chinese and are the most rugged jacking and support equipment I've ever owned. Owners of car repair shops or heavy equipment dealers or aviation fabrication businesses who jack stuff up all day, every day will certainly disagree...


Regards,

I would agree to a point. But it is impossible to X-ray a weld or test the hardness of a pin visually. They only look good, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. A really good looking weld will be crap without penetration, and you don't measure penetration by eye.

I made the 'really good' comment without following up to say that they rely on the stamping for strength whereas a lot of the cheap stands rely on welded gussets. The ratchet mechanism might be weak, but from the picture you can't tell, so I'm not sure why you would call them crap. Is it just the fact that they look like a crappy set you had?

The 'crap' comment was intended as a joke. I have those stands and they are very solid. Some will have you believe that all Chinese stuff is crap, which it is not - those silkworm missiles, for instance, are of very high quality. Too bad the US deported the Chinese scientist who eventually developed them.

I shop at HF just about every week. I've picked up all kinds of useful small tools for a buck or three. Invariably, it is all Chinese.
Try those 6-ton stands, you'll like them.

Regards,

I'm sorry. I misinterpretted your comment.

Before the guy ever thought of creating Harbor Freight, I inherited a Chinese-made floor jack 25 years ago from a friend who was moving. It was huge, a monster, all steel, about 100+ lbs. never broke down except for the last 4 years I had it when the O-ring started to leak. It would jack up but instead of holding, it slowly descended. I compensated and swiftly timed my jack stand placements until if finally died - fortunately at rest and not at height.

You'd be surprised how much Chinese-made content is in "US-made" products.

Sherwood

Gunter, It was a little, crappy floor jack,( my good one was ALL the way across the garage). I had the jack in from the side jacking on the spring plate tube. FWIW what hit the floor was the flange on the bottom of the trailing arm. no harm done. now don't go off on me about the right/wrong place to jack, we all have our moments. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat5.gif
Don.

Hein Warner is a name that is owned by Omega Hydralics. Omega is made in China. I think one of the few USA made jacks is OTC and it cost about $550.

Don't they look good?
Born long before the job-drain to China ever started.
They are at least 20 years old 6-ton, made in Canada, repainted with rust paint.
+1 on looking at the welds and components.
But, how many people have the ability to recognize differences in craftmanship?
Or even understand load-factors in lifting? :confused:

Don: We all have done weird things. Not too many people have used the round T-bar covers to set up a floor jack.
Could have been worse.

Glade you can fix it. :)

I misunderstood him also.