Starter help

[moosthuizen]

I've just spend many hours in removing the #@$ starter. What a mission to remove! Though that itself is a major understatement!

Reason for removing: If car was warm the started refused to rotate at all. Then it became a constant, and the starter stopped working all together, nothing, no rotation at all, all I got was click from starter side, and fuel pump running.

Here is what I've done after removing:

1) Tested the yellow wire with ignition in start position, and I get 12, 5 volt, I'm assuming thats good.

2) Connected jumper cables from battery to starter, and if I also jumper another positive to the "wound cable" on starter it works!

3) Leave the + and - from battery on starter, and connect the yellow wire to the starter and turn ignition to start I get nothing, but connect the yellow to the "wound cable" and turn ignition to start the starter works.

My question what now? Should I, rather is it a good idea to permanently connect the yellow to the "wound cable"?
What do you think is the problem, I'm guessing solenoid?

Or should I just take it to a auto electrician?

Thanks

ps To anyone doing a search on how to remove starter from a 3.2 with g50 box, good luck. You need to lower the engine a bit and the tranny a lot, remove the shifter coupling, and have it supported with jack stands/jacks.

I cut an allenkey to the required shorter length, and welded a rod for leverage, and still it took me many hours (I'm not going to disclose the exact amount of time, for risk of being laughed at )

Good luck

[911pcars]

"....and if I also jumper another positive to the "wound cable" on starter it works!"

Please define "wound cable". It helps if there's mutual understanding of the terms being used.

Sherwood

[peritus]

FYI, I really struggled with this too, until I learned, what I call, the "Pelican Technique" from doing an extensive search.

Granted, with my G50 car, I did end up lowering the engine to give some space, but that's before I learned this proceedure. I removed the starter from my 915 car a few days ago, and it was very easy after learning how to do it. Should be the same with a G50...

Lower the car (on jack stands) so that it's just a few inches from your chest. Lie underneath with your head towards the front. With your right arm, reach up and around the tranny, as if to hug it tightly with one arm. You'll have to really reach, but you'll eventually find the hex with your fingers.

Now, with the left arm, get your ratchet and 8" or 10" extension in position, guiding it in with your right hand's fingers. Once in, leverage the ratchet while maintaining the hug position with the right arm and undo the nut with your left arm.

Easy as pie. I had mine out in 4 minutes, back in in 7, but who's bragging here?

Hope this helps..

[moosthuizen]

The "wound cable" I'm referring to is a short cable, that forms part of the starter. If you look at the starter you will see it where all the cables are connected. It is an exposed cable, and very short. It is on the solonoid. I realy dont know how else to describe it, but all starters have them.

OK so I dont know a lot about starters!

Any suggestions?

[911pcars]

Here's a diagram of a typical starter and solenoid. Is the "wound" wire shown here?



Sherwood

[moosthuizen]

Thanks Sherwood, but no the wire does not seem to be in your diagram. I'll post a photo of it. It is a copper/bronze coloured wound wire.

[moosthuizen]

Here you go it is in the middle of the photo

[911pcars]

That is the source wire for the starter motor, the lower circuit in the drawing; the wire leading to the starter motor. When the solenoid is energized, a copper disc makes a connection between this wire and the pos. battery cable.

Connecting a jumper wire from the yellow wire terminal to the "wound" wire won't do anything. That's because the only time there is voltage available in the yellow wire is when the the ignition switch is in the crank position. And if the yellow wire were connected directly to the starter motor via the wound wire with the ignition switch in the crank position, there would be high current flow through the wire and probably overheat it.

Sherwood

[moosthuizen]

Sherwood

You seem to know your stuff! Now the fact that I get the starter working jumping the source wire, is this indicative of any specific problem? Like say the solonoid not activating the source, i.e the copper disc not making contact between this wire and the pos battery cable? Indicating that my problem is the solonoid, or is there any other possible causes for my problem?

Thank you

[911pcars]

You may have described this already in your previous message, but this is what I'd suggest.

The yellow wire from the ignition switch provides source voltage to energize the solenoid, but only in the crank position. You said you measured 12 volts at this wire (disconnected from the solenoid). Should be about the same as measured directly at the battery. Same with the pos. battery cable on the solenoid. If so, that's fine. Anything less indicates some resistance in this circuit (poor connection(s), faulty ign. switch, etc.). BTW, if you have 12 volts at the yellow wire connected to the solenoid (cranking), then the solenoid isn't working. The system voltage should normally drop when the starter motor rotates. If the motor is faulty and doesn't rotate, the available voltage at that point will depend on what the malfunction is.

However, if the solenoid and starter work fine on the work bench, then you may have a situation where the ground circuit is suspect. Check the braided ground wire at the gearbox mount bracket. Make sure it's in good shape with clean and tight connections on both ends.

Sherwood