The 911R SWB project .....I bought some rust and got a car with it...sort of...
 

Maybe my first and last ebay endeavor...

I asked the seller a miriad of questions regarding rust.(pre-bid)..and got reasonable answers. I asked about all the problem areas and was rebuffed that the car was almost rust free. Fotunately they shipping was relatively cheap, but I'm still not happy with the representation. I will need to replace the entire floor..... front suspension pan, the rockers, and lots of other perifreral rust undisclosed.

I asked the ebay-er for some understanding $$ but we will see.

Here is one days worth of work....the starthttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910748.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910805.jpg

and the result...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910892.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910915.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910940.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177910974.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177911001.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177911025.jpg


I can do all this...but wasn't intending to have to do it all. Frustrating having to deal with bad representations.

I guess there is a reason I like to weld.....at .07 cents per hourhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177911369.jpg

I fail to see how that is even close to being "almost rust free". Sorry to hear you have more of a project on your hands. Good luck.

That's totally a rust free car.

You bought the rust and got the car for free.

But not entirely unexpected for buying an early 911 sight unseen. You should have a pro look at it. That chassis can easily be beyond shot and it may be much cheaper for you to scrap that one and start over again.

Everything that goes around...comes around...
 

Maybe somebody that has a 78 3.0 in their car...upgrading to a 3.4 will have sympathy on me. I would like to stuff a 3.0 in the rear of this car with SSIs and a sport exhaust...

Then again, maybe a 3.6???

The 911R clone thing will happen regardless....

You are a saint for making that car whole again. Godspeed, speedo.

http://www.seeing-stars.com/Images/P...lintstones.jpg

There was a guy in the classifieds last week with a complete SWB floor. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress!

I don't think that will take you a ton of time to do if you can weld. I have a front hump I am waiting to install of course I cannot weld so that is holding me back for months.

Definitely a worthwhile cause. I'm in the neighborhood to give a shout if you need a hand for anything.

I would have it acid-dipped to ascertain the full extent of the rust before you start welding.

Do you have the orange tube that was in the engine compartment on the eBay ad?

Wow! Plenty of ventilation in that car! Good luck!!

subscribed...if you can pull this off, you will be a hero to me like DarylD!

Good luck - I look forward to more as the project unfolds

Holly Babuschka Batman,

I admire your determination, that's a lot of area to address and I hope you do your own welding. Can you tell us what you ended up paying for the old girl????? I think I saw it on E-bay and they did represent it as having significantly less rust.................

Dirty Marty
Fallbroo,Ca

I did that once, well not that bad, but a big reclamation project.

Two words: Never again.

Wow, I sure hope you get some $$ back from the seller.

BTW, it's about time for a Boulder lunch don't you think?

Ferg

Wow- I thought my project was bad! That will be a labor of love for sure. If you bought it through PayPal, you've got something like $2000 of buyers insurance. Good luck!

That's pretty bad, but I wouldn't expect too much from the seller...you might have gotten the hint from this pic on the eBay ad:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177972199.jpg

The good news is that the parts are worth pretty much what you paid. Next time, ask some opinions here before jumping on buying a car.

Then this really becomes a no-brainer. Sell the parts and start over again with a clean chassis. There's no reason to do otherwise.

I heard from the seller today....
 

She...reamed me...literally. Four paragraphs of how dare I question her representation. Futhermore, I did call and talk with her before the auction. She claimed to have no "knowledge of automobiles", but fortunate for me had, her handy neighbor available to walk around the car and investigate specific areas for me. (Incidently, she has multiple cars for sale on an ongoing basis) .He...as my eyes confirmed the solidness of the areas I asked about.

She went further to say she had already praised me as a buyer with good marks....she ought to...she had all my $$. She then said she was sorry she had praised me, and was going to talk to her ebay representative about me! She complained that she had been "hosed" and taken advantage of.???? AAFS (another angry female syndrom).

I didn't respond to her explosion....kind of like getting flipped off by an angry driver on your way to work in the morning...and just "letting it go"

Thanks for the interest guys. I will not have a problem putting the beast back together. I actually enjoy welding, and like bringing something back to life. I ordered the sheet metal today.

We don't have any facilities for acid bath out here....we have to rely on media blasting. A-1 metal stripping in Dever does a good job...and you get to keep a lot of their media for free.

I will order the fiberglass for the front fenders, hood ,bumpers and rear lid shortly.

While I am going at the welding, I will move the engine mounts...912-911 and weld on 69-73 rear flares for that "R" look.

It does have a aluminum trannie...which I hope ends up being a 5 speed vs 4 speed.

As I determine what body parts I won't need, I will post the pieces for sale.

I don't need any sympathy, it was my doing, and if a mistake was made, I made it...no excuses. I will start a new thread to monitor the progress without the negative energy associated with his humble start....instead with enthusiasm for what he will become.

sorry to hear about your situation. it pains me to see someone get taken advantage of. my first 911 was a similar experience so at least you've got some basis in experience to work from. I would also second what John said about getting the car totally clean and doing so before you start welding. good luck.

If someone is advertising a car as 'almost rust-free', it doesn't matter that they didn't know, or it wasn't revealed by the neighbor's inspection or they didn't take the time to look at it themselves or weren't willing to pay to have it professionally inspected before making such a claim that appears to be in direct contradiction to the actual condition that was revealed:

THEY ARE STILL LYING, and you are perfectly right to tell them that, and any other potential ebay buyer looking to purchase any other stuff they are trying to sell. Not being honest about stuff is a pattern among some ebay sellers.

That being said, it's always a 'buyer beware' issue for you to verify their claim yourself or by a third party representing you.

It looks to me like both parties in this transaction were at fault; the seller by mis-representing and the buyer by not exercising due dilligence in verifying the 'almost rust-free' claim.

So, what to do? Check ALL the structural points for integrity and then decide if it's worth it to repair. I know you want to salvage this unfortunate investment by making it all right again, but if it's not worth it to do all the repairs and then end up with something that is not solid, that's just going to rub salt in the wound. If it's not salvagable, I think you have a case for getting some of your money back in a lawsuit.

Of course, the fact that you have already torn it apart makes it less than returnable to the seller; it is not in the same condition as when it was sold. That would also be accountable in a lawsuit.

Certainly you are not defaming anyone by publicizing the case of her misrepresentation of the condition of the car you bought; that's essentially fraud.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing with the car and any potential future action against the seller. And thank you for posting your story so that others may not make the same mistake.

Regards,

I am curious to see the eBay ad if anyone wants to give the item #.

Anyone can report the seller to the eBay fraud unit - and this sure looks like fraud - I agree with Joe on that and on the free speech ability to set forth the facts w/o any danger of a tort suit against you. But I disagree that the buyer has to verify a claim that the car was "almost rust-free." It would have been smart in hind sight, just as it might have been smart in hind sight to stay awake with a loaded weapon the night before your house was burglarized - but there is no obligation there.

Here it is. Not to beat someone who is down, but IMHO the condition of the car is pretty obvious by closely looking at the pictures given:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-Porsche-912-project-car_W0QQitemZ270108253725QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6429QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosti ng

hate to say it, but the rust is in the pics and the price isn't out of line.

"I am selling this project car that was given to me for payment on a debt owed." - Warning sign #1

"The car appears to be set up for a handicapped person." Yes, no legs, just carbide blocks to act as brakes.

"It was a project that they never finished. " Acid dipped 15 years ago, stored outside since then.

"It was given to me to cover an old debt. No title was ever given, but it came from WY." Warning sign #2

"There is some rust on the floor pan, see the pictures below and on the rocker pannels." Some rust on the edges where the panels are completely rotted out. Don't say I didn't warn you.

"my loss it your gain." Famous eBay quote.

"Please ask questions before bidding." You've been warned, again.

I am sure you are disappointed with what Carloyn sold you, but I think there is blame on both sides here. It's an old rusty car on eBay, there's a reason she did not sell it locally, she didn't want it inspected by the buyer. And I am sure she was relieved to see it shipped far away.

You've got your lemon, start making lemonade out of it. You can make a very nice car out of this, it will just take more work than you thought.

speedo,

cant wait for the photos of the project to start pouring in. thanks for posting.

The problem with ebay is (it seems) all too many "ebayers" hide behind there computer, instead of standing by their product.

First off the price is fair for what you got. Second, I don't know if it was bought as is but if it was then you get whatever he sends you. As is means come take a look for yourself but if you don't then what I send you is what you get. I would just forget about it and go forward, make her a beauty.

I'm not sure a rusted out 912 hulk IS worth the price paid.

If she said it was nearly rust free and you can prove that then you can go after her. One problem is the "as is" statement - but if she Emailed you later and said nearly rust free then that counters the as is. the other problem is that you don't have a big enough loss to involve an attorney - unless it is your uncle or something.

Again, if you have the Email as to the condition then send it to eBay's fraud unit. If she just said that over the phone you are SOL.


It will make a fine racer tho. Good Luck.

Some rust? What is her definition of more than just "some?" I'd like to see someone turn the table on her and then let her whine.

eBay certainly brings America to its lowest common denominator. I wonder what her personal house trailer looks like. Maybe it's got some rust and she just walks on the dirt.

http://i15.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/97/c5/5d46_12.JPG

http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/97/c5/60d8_12.JPG

http://i21.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/97/c5/645e_12.JPG


Winning bid: US $1,517.00



I tend to agree with chapo... although I wouldn't take on this project even if it was free as you'll need $$$$$$++++.

plate shows county 6 -- in Wyoming. IIRC, that is Fremont or maybe Sheridan.

So the trailer remark is probably accurate - unless the wind has blown it away.

Nuff said.....
 

My issue with the seller was not the extent and severity of the known rust. It was her disavowment of any knowledge of cars...and need to solicit her "neighbor" to help assess the car over the phone. She had multiple cars listed for sale at the same time. ...hmmm no knowledge of cars and we are selling several?For 15 minutes...her "objective neighbor " looked at the rear window for rust in the lower edges, checked the rear shelf, rear seats and floor pans for the typical "waterfall that occurs when the rear window leaks. Bottom line, no rust...solid. I was ready to deal with the front floorboard rust, and the rockers, no problem. He...the neighbor attested that the car was solid in the specific areas I asked about. I also asked about the rust in the front near the gas tank support...again "surface rust " no problem. Unfortunately....he was like the dupe in the crowd at the expensive carpet auction working for the house to jack the price.

I emailed the seller and told her that I wasn't going to ding her seller satisfaction score...but meerly wanted some "love " in dealing with the extra steel I was going to have to order from restoration design. She appears to be mad at all males...so my efforts in that direction are wasted .

I /we need to close this thread...I'm not angry, just enlightened. I will put the car together very quickly and correctly. I again appreciate the support, but I'm not vindictive and am not going to hire a lawyer. I channel my energy best by creating...which is what I will do when the steel arrives. I need to get the car to and from my media blaster ASAP to start the work.

What goes around ...comes around. I'll keep all posted on the project. I already have most of the parts for this...although I am in need of some of those repro seats.

Speedo....

moderator...if you please...curtain time?SmileWavy

Great show of integrity on your part. I am a lot like you cause I like to build especially when it look too daunting!! I have a '69T that got converted to a RS copy and now is in the process of becoming a RSR clone..........and yep, got rust also. I have spent the last two days replacing and repairing. I did get the new flares installed. I have got the front disassembled for the fiberglass front fenders and the '86 Carrera front strut setup. I am now where you are going and it's a blast. Nothing like having YOUR fingerprints on every part of your car. Nothing like the smell of welding in the morning and choking on the dust from the grinder and the smell of undercoating burning...You gotta love it cause I do. ...................Grind on brother.......

Waddya mean? The cabover camper is backed up to the tent, both sitting on dirt.

http://i16.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/97/c5/5ba2_12.JPG

Your uncle milt don't steer you wrong.

he heh.

Ah, milt, but will it last thru next winter? Wyo. winds sometimes blow trains off their tracks (!)

Since this is not closed, I'll just say that reporting things can serve a public purpose - others can see past problems and be forewarned.

Anyway, I am looking forward to your rebuilding thread - I hope your skills are at the milt/Darryl level - they've both documented total rescues of these great old cars.

Well put. And my comments weren't meant to offend or insult the buyer, they were meant to warn others that eBay is a sleazy place, and a 'real deal' is unlikely when millions of pepole are watching and bidding. It's a low end Barret-Jackson.

I would not even give it that. At least at BJ (hey, that kinda fits), you have to pay to get in.

eBay is good for trinkets and new merchandise of a small nature. Lots of grass roots sellers out there with 1000's of plus feedback. That will never be the case for someone selling a car that no one would even think about locally, especially in a small community.

Our fellow Pelican got a car to build for next to nothing, relatively speaking. What I mean by that is the car came to him, he didn't have to go find it. I've turned down two that were complete with non running engines and were basket cases (these were 911s) for similar money in similar condition. They both sold for a bit more than I would pay.

My best deal yet was a rolling Targa with a motor and trans, but not much else,, for $200. Next best was a 2.4 T motor complete sitting on the ground in a pool of oil for $350. Those are the kinds you can't walk away from (no matter what your wife says, LOL).