Porsche 911 Custom KickPanel Speaker Mounts
 

Saw these on Ebay.

On Ebay

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178463193.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178463219.jpg

They are pretty cheap as far as custom fiberglass goes. Has anyone tried them.

they look ok....

what size speaker can you fit in there?

"Custom Porsche 911 Coupe Fiberglass Kick Panels that can fit a set of 4" Component Speakers or even a 5 1/4" Component System if back mounted and the frame isn't to large."

Here's a little variation that gets those mids & tweets closer to the ears! enjoy;) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1178639877.jpg

Glad to see they dont want to make any money on shipping!

They look alot like the ones that USD Audio built in the 90's.

The only issue is you ned to do a mold of the rear and then attach the two halves with glass.

Not hard to do if you have done glass before.

To answer obvious next question:
You need to seal the drivers inside the panel so that the front and the rear wave ofthe drivers (180 defrees out of phase from each other) don't meet and cancel each other out.

Good luck

"You need to seal the drivers inside the panel so that the front and the rear wave ofthe drivers (180 defrees out of phase from each other) don't meet and cancel each other out."

Phasing speakers is ensuring the polarity of the wires to the speaker is correct.

Sealing the rear of the speaker assy. (e.g. in an enclosure), is mandatory for the best audio reproduction. However, speaker enclosures with the correct interior volume is a luxury; it isn't practical in our cars - most cars, and if done via DIY methods, there's usually not enough thought about the ideal size. Protecting the rear of an exposed door-mounted speaker is a good idea.

I'd go with the speakers in the door panel rather than the space-encroaching add-on enclosure next to your foot unless it also performs double-duty as a foot rest. The audio guys usually recommend the high frequency driver (tweeters) be close to the mid-range driver. For that reason, I installed mine in a compromised position in the kick panel next to the authentic foot rest and closer to the mid-range speaker. It's some distance from a more ideal sound path to driver and passenger ears.

There is no convenient and ideal location for speakers inside an early 911. In the future, I see the ideal sound system to be personal headphones or even complete sound systems that allow important sound frequencies to be more audible (more than noise cancellation), but user-selectable to filter fatiguing exhaust resonances.

Sherwood

As an installer for roughly 8 years (put myself through college BS to Phd), I can tell you via first hand that the kick panels are the way to go for imaging. You could even loose the door speakers al together if you wanted to. Now, as a 911 nut, I prefer to keep things looking as stock as possible so I use the door speaker with factory grills. I just put a lot of power to them and use a very high quality speaker. The sound is good but it would be better with some kick panel speakers. I just don’t know that I would like looking at them every day and more than likely kicking them. Kick panels in a truck are easy, lots of room. In a 911?? Anyway, I posted this because I thought it was a fair price for the product and they look pretty good.

Sherwood,

After 16 years in the high end audio industry (Both custom car and custom home integration) I have a hard time letting stuff like this go and having the consumer more confused than they already may be.

Our indutry does a disservice to the average guy every day with our marketing tactics.

By changing the speakers back and forth you will change the electrical phase of the speaker BUT:

The front and rear of every driver emits the exact same wave form but out of pase from each other. 180 degrees.

If the two wave forms meet they will cancel each other out.
ie. No bass from a sub that is hanging in mid air.

That is the first reason for an enclosure.

The second reason for an enclosure is to tune the enclosure for the best possible output of the driver.

This is done by using the thiel small paramters of the driver.
Math and typically an enclosure program.

khamul02 is dead on about the stage and image of the car using kicks.
In the height of Autosound contests of the late 80's and 90's people like Dave Navone, Richard Clark and Eric Holdaway etc. used both kick panel enclosures and Horns loaded drivers under the dash to create the most relistic soundstage possible.

And the we all think the average PCAR guy is a little nuts.
Don't get me started about the audio industry.

"By changing the speakers back and forth you will change the electrical phase of the speaker BUT:

The front and rear of every driver emits the exact same wave form but out of pase from each other. 180 degrees.

If the two wave forms meet they will cancel each other out.
ie. No bass from a sub that is hanging in mid air."

Notwithstanding your audio experience, do you mean to say that connecting speaker wires to speakers thusly, +/- to -/+, maintains proper speaker phasing? Perhaps our terminology differs or that particular connection is for a particular audio effect.

I define speaker phasing as when all speaker cones move forward and rearward together in response to an On-Off voltage signal.

Sherwood

There is a difference between Acoustrical and Electrical Phase.

If you hook up the speakers terminals pos to pos etc.
They are in electrical phase alienment with each other.

If you switch one speaker around neg to pos etc.
Then they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

IE.
If you have them in phas with each other electrically you will be able to see the driver move out together and back in together. Assumming the are playing the same signal.

Acoustical Phase deals with arrival time of the wave form at your ear.
Depending on the distance diference between the two speakers and the ear they will be slightly out of acoustical phase with each other.
This can lower or raise the soundstage, blur the image etc.

As an example.
Sometimes you pull the whole front end of the car out of electrical phase with the subs in the rear to help simulate the bass coming from the front.

None of this takes into the phase shift issues with passive crossover networks though.

Hope this helps.

The last thing we need to do in confuse people.

We also need to distinguish relative and absolute phase...

There is also phase shift as the speaker (enclosure) itself moves back & forth from the movement of the cone moving the box - first shown using laser interferometry by B&W IIRC...

"This is done by using the thiel small parameters of the driver."
- ?? Most commonly today, as ported designs are used. Sealed boxes/acoustic suspension are a bit different.

Can we come up with a real simple set of steps to avoid the confusion you refer to?

I definitely agree that there is no really good solution in a 911. But you can get pretty decent sound with door speakers as long your expectations are not extreme...


{Since phase was mentioned, todays biological-acoustics tidbit will point out that owls have asymmetrical ears - they are spaced differently on the head and differ somewhat in size and placement of the tufts to maximize phase shifts between the 2 ears. The brain can use this to better calculate distance information for more accurate prey capture.}

Sweet bio note :D

Man this is way out of control now.

here's the simple solution:

By a great set of components.
lets not decide what brand is better please.

By a deck with good time alianment and electronic EQ

A good amp.

Put the speakers in the doors.

John, I agree. I think it is also important to mention that the amp need match the speakers ie not overpower them.

Re: Porsche 911 Custom KickPanel Speaker Mounts
 

Have been in a Pcar that had them. Gives new meaning to the acrobatics involved in exiting the vehicle. They are REALLY in the way of the front half of your feet.

Very nice to know. Most of the time we installed these things in a lot larger cars or trucks. I kinda thought that they would be in the way a bit more in our limited space.