Any value in keeping cars "original"?

[toddu]

When I bought my car, I looked for a car that I didn't have to do anything to, but could do projects when I felt inclined.

My question is, when I think about tackling larger projects such as refreshing the interior, refreshing the motor, etc., I struggle with things like - do I keep the current original motor, and try and squeeze what I can out of it during the rebuild (3.0 CIS... limited squeezing), when I refresh the interior, do I recoving my not so supportive seats, or just go ahead with "racing" seats, etc.

I don't have plans of selling the car, and will hopefully pass it on to my son some day. I know I will probably never get out any money that I put in. But, is there any value in keeping a car fairly un-molested? Or molest away? (It's an '81sc by the way.. important detail).

Cheers,

[the]

Yes, there is some value in keeping any 911 original.

If and when you pass your car on to your son (say 10 years from now), it will have the highest value if it were as bone stock and as original as possible.

For most of the common "mods" like racing seats, unoriginal style interiors, etc., you will get a zero return on what you spent, and likely lower the value of the car a bit and make it a bit harder to sell down the road.

That being said, unless your car is an exceptionally low mile, exceptionally original concours SC, it's not going to make a huge difference even 10 years from now.

[Deschodt]

Yeah, if it was an early 911, absolutely... For an SC, though, if you want to make changes for your personal comfort or preference, I would not sweat it too much. There are tons of them and while it' sa great car it's unlikely to reach the high peaks of collectability that 73 and earlier 911-S models in particular - are reaching!

Enjoy it, good seats will transform an SC !

[real550A]

Good points above. Also, most "bolt on" mods are re-
versible. You can change seats, wheels, interior, stereo, and
even engines to suit your wants, and eventually put it back
to bone stock, if you retain the original parts.
Many buyers will attach a premium to the sale price with
all those stock parts available.
Make it the car you want to drive, just leave the sawzall
in the toolbox. Good luck!

[Chocaholic]

You have to ask yourself...."who did I buy the car for"? If you bought it for some future owner, don't even drive it. . .put it up on stands and wait for the appreciation to build. But, you'll be waiting a long time. Perhaps your great grandchild might have an opportunity to recoupe most of your original investment.

Or, if you bought it for yourself, turn it into the car the turns you on. Forget about the next guy. Life is short. You own a great platform for building your dream car. Why not do it? If you pass it along to your son, you'll pass along your passion and taste along with it. A much more valuable legacy if you ask me!

[toddu]

"who did I buy the car for"

That is a great point!

[rs6er]

Originally posted by Chocaholic
You have to ask yourself...."who did I buy the car for"? If you bought it for some future owner, don't even drive it. . .put it up on stands and wait for the appreciation to build. But, you'll be waiting a long time. Perhaps your great grandchild might have an opportunity to recoupe most of your original investment.

Or, if you bought it for yourself, turn it into the car the turns you on. Forget about the next guy. Life is short. You own a great platform for building your dream car. Why not do it? If you pass it along to your son, you'll pass along your passion and taste along with it. A much more valuable legacy if you ask me!

Great answer! Kudos.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I have modded my '83 SC extensively but kept all the original parts. If somebody were silly enough to want to remove 100 hp and revert to the car's original shape, they easily could.

But having said that, I have so much money in it that I can't ever sell it without taking a huge loss. So I'll someday give it to a friend, if my daughter doesn't want it...

[304065]

The compatability of parts from the later 911's, engines and transaxles in particular, makes "upgrades" common among 911 owners.

I'm in the tail of the bell curve in this view, but I happen to believe that the older Porsches are pretty darn good from the factory, and that upgrading isn't really necessary, except where there's a pressing need to correct a known problem, e.g. the 11 blade fan.

The VALUE of originality can be thought of in different ways. In one sense, it's the premium that a well-informed buyer will pay for a completely original car, with the patina of continuous care but no restoration. Particularly in the case of the old SWB and longhood cars, ones that have been lovingly cared for, but never restored, will command a premium over even the most concours-perfect restoration, because they represent a condition that's unobtainable through the mere expenditure of money. These cars seldom trade, and certainly aren't advertised on the Internet, and the opportunity of ownership takes a back seat to the price.

The other way to look at it is: "what is the cost to put back to original a car that someone has "modified" to not be original? At a bare minimum, it's a couple hundred hours of labor. At the max, it's the labor, plus the time to find and acquire original parts, many of which are No Longer Available from the factory at any price, and some of which can't even be had from the enthusiast collector community for any price. So the value of originality is the value of the parts plus the labor to put things right.

Another approach is this: the valuation of a modified car is affected by the lack of demand for a car modified away from the factory original. YOU may think that a Gemballa conversion is attractive. However, you are one of only about three people in The Known Universe, including Gemballa himself, who think so. Now, I don't want a bunch of heat from the Gemballa Owner's Club for this, so both of you just stop it. Far, far more people like what The Factory originally produced, and far more of those far, far many more people will show up at your doorstep when the time comes to sell, so many that you may need to hire an auctioneer to manage the process for you.

Finally, what about "scare factor?" When I see a car that's had the fuse box replaced with ATC-type fuses, I wonder, "how many hours of additional time will be required to diagnose even the slightest electrical problem with this car?" because once you deviate from original, time has to be spent figuring out what you have in the first place before diagnosis and repair begin. It all adds up. Sure, you can replace the wiring harness. But it's $2,000 and probably takes forty hours by an expert in early electrical systems to do it. Unless the car was owned by Dr. Porsche himself, few but the most stalwart enthusiasts would want to take on a project with a pre-installed headache like that. So "Scare factor" tends to drive away potential bidders, with the net result of a lower final sale price.

So keep it ORIGINAL. RESIST the temptation to modify your car with every possible aftermarket accessory, particularly electrical. RESIST the temptation to drop a 3,6 into a 1964 SWB car, because by the time you get done changing what needs to be changed, you've replaced the entire car with parts from a 1998 993.

And WHATEVER you do, leave those damn windshield wipers on the side they came from the factory on. If you really can't see over them, invest in a telephone book to sit on before you move them over. My 1966 911 HAS the wipers on the other side, and every time I shut them off, a rivulet of water runs across the driver's side. Porsche MOVED them so they would park at the bottom of the Driver's windshield so that slush and dirty water would run UNDER them off the side of the car! "But I live in L.A., so it never rains." OK, maybe there should be a Project 69A, "Donate your wipers to the local squeegee man!"

Then again, I just spent about 100 hours determining exactly what nuts to use on the case perimeter of my 901/05, so I'm on the tail of the bell curve. . .

[defcon65]

My 2 cents: Mostly original cars will appeal to the largest number of prospective buyers when it comes time to sell. Some 911 buyers aren't looking for something with decals, wings, fiberglass panels and a roll cage. They want an original 'antique' sports car that looks as good as it did the day it left the factory. There are a lot of mechanical and performance mods that won't detract from the original look and are worthwhile investments. And keep those original parts you have replaced if they are serviceable, there may be a market for those as well.

[Rick V]

My Sc is origional, ecxcept for bolt-ons. I changed the exhaust, wheel, and added a ducktail, the seats are next. I can put my car back quickly should I chose to.
When I was looking for my car, I wanted an origional one, so thats what I got.
People are differant, and so are thier ideas of what should be done to a car. I didn't want to buy anyone elses idea of "good".
My search took about 2 years and I was so happy with my purchase, I can't/wont make any perminant changes to her.
I should also mention I have a couple of cars I can take out my mod-moods on, so it is easy for me.
In the long run the car is yours to do with what you want. If it is going to be your sons, ask his opinion, and make it a together project.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally posted by defcon65
My 2 cents: Mostly original cars will appeal to the largest number of prospective buyers when it comes time to sell. Some 911 buyers aren't looking for something with decals, wings, fiberglass panels and a roll cage. They want an original 'antique' sports car that looks as good as it did the day it left the factory. There are a lot of mechanical and performance mods that won't detract from the original look and are worthwhile investments. And keep those original parts you have replaced if they are serviceable, there may be a market for those as well.

+1. Most folks in the market for a 3.0 or 3.2 car are looking for nostalgia. Original condition cars add to buyer confidence. There are always exceptions...Bilstein, 9" Fuchs, a modern (modest) stereo can be low risk but once you get into racing seats & suspension, 5pt harness, roll bar, wings, graphics, body kits, I think it gets cloudy.

[ulrichd]

I think this is an excellent example of a car in the classifieds right now (81 factory widebody) that should, in my opinion, have been left alone. As a stock widebody I would fetch a pretty good price.

Ulrich

[rwolak@verizon.]

I agree with: "

You have to ask yourself...."who did I buy the car for"? If you bought it for some future owner, don't even drive it. . .put it up on stands and wait for the appreciation to build. But, you'll be waiting a long time. Perhaps your great grandchild might have an opportunity to recoupe most of your original investment.

Or, if you bought it for yourself, turn it into the car the turns you on. Forget about the next guy. Life is short. You own a great platform for building your dream car. Why not do it? If you pass it along to your son, you'll pass along your passion and taste along with it. A much more valuable legacy if you ask me!"

I just purchased a a '83 cabriolet with fiberglass slantnose ad-ons. Most would say that may not have been the smartest thing to do but the car is what I was looking for----something different. Granted, you don't see a lot of SCs on the road, or at least I don't, but the slant nose is really rare. Will I loose money on the car---who knows!!! I didn't buy it to make money.

Totally original cars are only worth a premium is they are low mileage garage queens. All you have to do is watch the Barrett Jackson auction to realize it.

[azasadny]

Originally posted by Chocaholic
You have to ask yourself...."who did I buy the car for"? If you bought it for some future owner, don't even drive it. . .put it up on stands and wait for the appreciation to build. But, you'll be waiting a long time. Perhaps your great grandchild might have an opportunity to recoupe most of your original investment.

Or, if you bought it for yourself, turn it into the car the turns you on. Forget about the next guy. Life is short. You own a great platform for building your dream car. Why not do it? If you pass it along to your son, you'll pass along your passion and taste along with it. A much more valuable legacy if you ask me!

+1

[syncroid]

Originally posted by Chocaholic
You have to ask yourself...."who did I buy the car for"? If you bought it for some future owner, don't even drive it. . .put it up on stands and wait for the appreciation to build. But, you'll be waiting a long time. Perhaps your great grandchild might have an opportunity to recoupe most of your original investment.

Or, if you bought it for yourself, turn it into the car the turns you on. Forget about the next guy. Life is short. You own a great platform for building your dream car. Why not do it? If you pass it along to your son, you'll pass along your passion and taste along with it. A much more valuable legacy if you ask me!

+2 I built my car for me. Its modified tastefully in my opinion. Its never been wrecked and I have all the receipts and service records since new.
If I ever do sell it, I want a bazillion dollars for it.