Please help, the pain is unbearable

[mhackney]

This is a long sordid story, I'm afraid. I'll keep it short before posing the problem.

2 1/2 years ago, I had a problemwith my 1970 911S that turned out to be the nut that attaches to the pivot arm in the clutch housing: Ok, now I need professional help - yours! - tells all the details. Well, I got that fixed, and while I had the engine pulled, replaced the stuff that Wayne's book recommends to replace. I also had the sheet metal powder coated. Everything was looking good. It too a few months and then it was time to put the engine back in. That went smothly too. However, I had forgotten to take photos of the starter connection and we were not able to turn it over. See 1970 S starter wiring question for my post on that. I never did get it to work and I, unfortunatly, started a software company that consumed most of my time. So the 911 has sat in my garage until now and I want to get it back on the road so I can drive it. I had put gas stabelizer in the tank and run it a few minutes before the engine drop.

So, unfortunately, there are a lot of variables since the engine was pulled and replaced and it has been 2 1/2 years since I last worked on it. But here goes:

First I checked the fluids and needed to top off the oil - the oil was clean from the rebuild. The battery was dead as a doorknob so I hooked up my charger and it is charging away. I also found the correct connections for the starter wiring - both the red and the black wires go on the outside terminal of the solenoid and the yellow wire with the spade connector attaches to the clip - pretty straight forward.

After being on the charger for an hour (I know it wasn't long enough) I tried cranking it over. Upon turning the key, the fuel pump kicked in and I could hear it whirring. Clicking further to the starter engage position, nothing happened. It sounded like the fuel pump slowed a bit but that was it. So, I put the 911 up on my lift and had my son work the ignition while I used a voltmeter to measure at the starter/solenoid. I'm only seeing about 10V at the black/red wire terminal. Could be that the battery needs more charge? Also, if I pull the yellow wire and measure the voltage on it, shouldn't I see it spike to 12V when I turn on the ignition to the start position? It did not seem to have any voltage on it.

Thanks in advance,
Michael

[porschefool]

Put a new battery in it. Don't waste your time with charging some old battery...
or, if it's not such an old batt, charge the hell out of it...at least 12 hours or so.

[JP911]

Charge the battery until it reads max charge, and holds that charge, or pick up a new battery. If you get the car started with a weak battery, making the alternator work harder, you could end up with a dead alternator.

[mhackney]

Thanks guys. The battery was less than a year old when all this started so I am reading some technical info in the tech area and will let the battery charge overnight before digging in again tomorrow. Been looking through wiring diagrams too to see what I can learn.

cheers,
Michael

[porschefool]

Make sure (if it's a vented batt) to pop the caps off the cells to let them breathe. Also, make sure there are no dry cells. I like to leave the caps covering the cells, just not sealed. Let those babies bubble for a bit.
There will be a little pressure/gas generated during the process.. be careful of sparking! Use the charger's 110 plug to control the process, not the clamps (disconnect/connect clamps only with power off)
Let us know if she fires up!

DON'T DO ANY OF THIS WITH THE BATT IN THE CAR.

[mhackney]

Thanks again, the battery is an Optima and is charging as we speak. I'm with you on the sparking issue! Even with a sealed battery I always plug/unplug the charger to control the process.

cheers,
Michael

[masraum]

I'd let it charge on the lowest setting for about 24 hours before I tried to start it. If you don't want to wait then get another battery.

[mhackney]

That's what I'm doing Steve. I have my charger set on the 2amp charge setting and I started charging at around noon est. So tomorrow I'll start the troubleshooting process. Where can I find a wiring diagram for a 70 that labels that parts? I have the factory spare parts catalogue but they do not have a diagram. I also have Wayne's book. I thought I had a hardcopy diagram somewhere but can't seem to locate it. Specifically, I want to trace that yellow lead that attaches to the solanoid. I know it goes to a fuse but need to go past that.

cheers,
Michael

[RichMink76]

I might have missed something here but how did you top off the oil without the engine running and warm? If you just filled it to the top mark on the dip stick you might have alot of smoke when it does start.

[69 Soft Targa]

First I checked the fluids and needed to top off the oil

Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here but a small red flag went up. Oil level is checked with warm engine running.

I'd hate to hear that it was overfilled...

[mhackney]

Good point Rich & Bob. I estimated that I had lost about 1 qt of oil dripping in to my drip pan over the course of the 2 1/2 years. I only added a quart and the initial oil after the engine reinstall was done based on the factory oil volume spec.

Once (if ever) I get it running I will be very careful with checking the oil. I'll do an oil and filter change asap after things are stabilized.

Cheers and thanks,
Michael

[69 Soft Targa]

Great! I feel much better now!

Think I'll go for a drive...hmm...which car today?

[mhackney]

Me too! At least the Twin Grille runs like a top (another reason it has taken this long to get the 911 back on the road. It is a beautiful evening here in the Boston area. Top down to my son's soccer game!

Cheers,
Michael

[scottb]

Originally posted by mhackney
Thanks again, the battery is an Optima and is charging as we speak.

Do a search here on the board. I have a vague recollection that a dead Optima needs a real "jolt" at the outset of charging, and then you can use a more normal rate of charge.

Here's a quote from another thread, "As reported before, to kick start a dead/discharged Optima, you need a charger that can output around 75-100 amps."

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[Rot 911]

You are way too impatient on the battery. First off that Optima is going to take days to charge, if ever, at 2 amps. Set it at the 10 amp setting. But first do what Scott recommended above. Set your charger on the "start" switch for about 5 minutes to try and bring your Optima back to life. Then to 10 amps until it shows fully charged. Some Optimas never come back from the dead.

[sdenton]

just my .02 cents. I have had many Optima's in various cars over the years. I have had optima's in completly dead from sitting over the winter, simply re-charged and I was off and running with no problems like normal acid batteries. It is hard to kill them, give it a good charge, as stated above, and go enjoy the car!

[mhackney]

Thanks folks. I am sure that once the battery is charged I am looking at a slow painful troubleshooting process to get it back on the road. 2 1/2 years ago when I tried to get it running I was not able to get the starter to kick in. That turned out to be from having the wiring hooked up incorrectly. Given that it has sat for 2 1/2 years, I am not sure what to expect. There still may be wiring problems.

cheers,
Michael

[brendon]

The starting issues aside, have you tried cranking it over by hand to make sure nothing is stuck from sitting?

[mhackney]

Brendon, yes I have and the engine seems fine. I had put new plugs in before reinstalling the engine and those still looked fine and the gaps were set correctly. I have 2 primary worries:

1) making sure the electrical system is sorted properly. I spent a lot of time when I first got the S tracking down problems with the CDI and that was no fun. I really don't like diagnosing electrical problems on this car since I don't have a lot of experience with it. An early 356, no sweat.

2) that I don't gunk up the MFI. I don't know how susceptable these are to gunking up but I've got to imagine that they are pretty easily gunked up.

cheers,
Michael

[mhackney]

Ok, step 1 - battery charged. I disconnected the charger and measured the post-to-post voltge at 12.4V. Maybe a bit low? Anyway, I installed the battery to give it a shot. I wanted to make sure that at least the starter was now wired correctly and would kick in. Turned the key and sure enough, the engine cranks over and sounds as sweet as it did "back in the day" (I always loved how this car sounded on startup). Anyway, a few seconds of cranking and it was not firing up. I can't recall if we put any gas in after we put the engine back in - in any event the gauge read E. I am off to the station to get some fuel.

I'll post results in an hour or so.

Cheers,
Michael