Help!! Anyone running 3.6 motor with PMO's

[Johnny B]

Hello all,

I need some help here as my mechanical knowledge is limited to the point of being dangerous.

I have a Euro 3.6L (964 motor) which used to run on fuel injection using a standard motronic system.

In my wisdom be it a good or bad thing I bought some PMO 50mm carbs, can these run using a standard motronic system or are there major modifications that now must be done.

All advice appreciated.

[cjpani]

All the Engine Managment electronics (motronic) must be removed in order to install the 50's.
Not major modifications, and the sound afterwards is worth all the hassle...

cj

[Johnny B]

thanks, what do you replace it with?

[JP911]

A Crankfire setup would probably be easiest. Another alternative may be the conversion of the 964 distributor to mechanical advance (RennSport Systems can do this) and the use of MSD CD boxes and coils.

[TonyG]

John,

I've done the exact same setup as yours (http://www.tonygarcia.org/911SC)


With the PMO's you will not use the factory distributors, or any of the factory electronics (other than perhaps the knock sensors).

You need to go to Clewett Engineering and buy their Electromotive XDi crank fire ignition for dual plugged engines. You need the complete kit from coil packs, to spark plug wires, to crank pulley/trigger wheel, center mount coil pack platform, etc.. They sell a complete kit with wiring harness.

And thinking about it... you can probably go without the crank pulley and trigger sensor mount and use the factory trigger sensor setup. Talk to Clewett and he will set you straight.

The XDi is a simple thing to setup, and it works perfectly and reliably.

Plan on spending about $1,500.00

Go here to check it out:

http://www.clewett.com/products/ignition/ignit.htm#dual



TonyG

[Johnny B]

thanks guys

[herman maire]

Originally posted by TonyG
John,

I've done the exact same setup as yours (http://www.tonygarcia.org/911SC)


With the PMO's you will not use the factory distributors, or any of the factory electronics (other than perhaps the knock sensors).

You need to go to Clewett Engineering and buy their Electromotive XDi crank fire ignition for dual plugged engines. You need the complete kit from coil packs, to spark plug wires, to crank pulley/trigger wheel, center mount coil pack platform, etc.. They sell a complete kit with wiring harness.

And thinking about it... you can probably go without the crank pulley and trigger sensor mount and use the factory trigger sensor setup. Talk to Clewett and he will set you straight.

The XDi is a simple thing to setup, and it works perfectly and reliably.

Plan on spending about $1,500.00

Go here to check it out:

http://www.clewett.com/products/ignition/ignit.htm#dual



TonyG

Tony,

I dont know if you remember but I PM you a few times in the past bothering you for info on this set up . I few more questions-

1- Do you have any problems with knocking if you dont run the knock sensors?

2- Does the xdi work well with the factory knock sensors?

3- How does is start up in the cold and would it run OK if I wanted to blast around in the winter ( below freezing)?

4- would TWM STB set up be better than the PMO's for cold weather starts ect...?

5- would a good use pair of 46mm webber carbs work OK?

Thanks again

[TonyG]

herman maire



1- Do you have any problems with knocking if you dont run the knock sensors?


No. I didn't run the knock sensors. I had zero issues with knock on pump gas. This is probably because you don't need to run a lot of ignition advance with the 964 engine.

2- Does the xdi work well with the factory knock sensors?

I don't know because I did not use the factory knock sensors (or any knock sensor for that matter).

But if I had them already installed, I would use them as an extra margin of safety.


3- How does is start up in the cold and would it run OK if I wanted to blast around in the winter ( below freezing)?

It starts fine in the cold. But you will have to keep your foot on the throttle until it warms up. There is no provision for cold starts.

A solution would be to adapt an early 911 style manual throttle control (that's what I would have done if I ran PMO's again).



4- would TWM STB set up be better than the PMO's for cold weather starts ect...?


What is a "STB"?


5- would a good use pair of 46mm webber carbs work OK?


I would stay away from Weber carbs. PMO's are 10x the quality in many respects compared to the Weber.

On the 3.6L setup, you could use a 46mm PMO or 50mm PMO. You'd want to start off with a 41mm venturi on a 964 engine with stock heads (specifically intake ports).


TonyG

[herman maire]

Originally posted by TonyG
herman maire

4- What is a "STB"?

Sorry about, its exactly what you are running. I guess some people call them Single Throttle Body STB or ITB .


What I was asking was pretty much TWM VS PMO . Which is the easiest to set up, least expensive , ect...


5- Would you ever consider a stock intake after the PMO's or TWM?

TonyG

Also this would be for a 993 motor in my 914

Thanks again Tony

[TonyG]

herman maire

Setting up a fuel injection from scratch is a lot of work. It is easier for sure if you use a common plenum setup over an ITB setup, but the ITB setup will simply make more power.

The factory 993 fuel injection system is great. It's turn-key, with zero setup issues... but it will not make the power of a TWM ITB setup or of a PMO setup.

The PMO setup will not make the power of the TWM on the top end. But the PMO setup will be far less expensive than a TWM setup and will be much easier to setup.

I think the cheapest setup would be the factory 993 intake/ignition, followed by the PMO/XDi, then the TWM (with what ever engine management system).

The full tilt TWM setup with an electromotive engine management system will cost you around $7,000 by the time you're done (plus installation, plus dyno time, plus someone that knows how to set it up if you do not).

The PMO/XDi setup will cost you about $4700 (plus another $300 if you want the ITG air filters). Installation is easy, there is no real setup needed. You simply set the timing and go. Richard at PMO will get the carbs setup for you about 98% correct out of the box. You really don't need dyno time if you have a wide band air/fuel ratio setup you can temp in to verify your air/fuel ratio under full load... then remove it.


TonyG

[berettafan]

oh boy this sounds reaaaaaaally neat! anybody got video of such a beast running?

[JTO]

Steve Weiner told me you could run the ignition portion of Motoronic and disable the FI portion.

Steve, isn't this what you told me? I hope you chime in on this.
Troy

[cjpani]

some pictures of the same conversion 964 3.6 to PMO's can be found on this thread

Upgrading the 1973 RSR (ex Don Ramsay) Pics!!

regards

cj