Racecar Oil Lines... sizes and routing

[Tspringer]

Finally got the engine/trans bolted back into my RSR replica and now I need to figure out all the oil line routing.

When I got this car it had the stock oil tank in the rear and a single oil cooler mounted in the nose, behind the opening in the front air dam. It was plumbed to the front cooler with AN-12 hoses and fittings.

Now I have eliminated the stock oil tank and installed a Smart Racing Products oil tank in the smugglers box. I am going to order the AN-20 oil line from them with the internal coils and the fitting adapter for the engine.

I purchased an Elephant racing front fender mount oil cooler and I want to run that in conjunction with a 2nd front oil cooler in the nose. My plans had been to re-use the cooler that was on the car but now I am not sure.

The Elephant cooler has larger hose fittings (AN-16 I think). The cooler I have of course has AN-12 fittings as the oil "out" fitting at the engine currently is AN-12. Plus i have all these lengths of AN-12 braided stainless hose and fittings.

But is AN-12 really what I want to run? Costs is a big issue at this point and buying all new line is expensive... something I want to avoid if possible but not at the serious detriment of my engine.

Here is another big issue: How to run the lines?? I prefer to run the lines through the interior of the car, up on the passenger side sill panel held in place with rubber lined fittings and with a thin aluminum sheet shield. This is how it was run before and all the holes and such are in place.

But... the rear seat/parcel shelf has been cut out and a sheet alloy cover panel is dzus fastened in place for easy removal for engine/trans/suspension access. How best to run the oil lines from the engine fittings over or under the drive shaft and above the torsion bar tube through the holes in the bulkhead? It seems the lines would just be floating there, potentially interfering with stuff?

Does anyone have some photos of oil line routing in this area? What other photos and/or suggestions do all the experts have?

All ideas and suggestions appreciated....

[barney911rs]

I hope someone else will correct me if I'm totally off base. You did not say what your motor will be, and that will effect the sizing of your oil lines.

I'm using -12, but I'm not running a high compression or high reving motor, so I can get enough flow with these lines. If I ever do anything to step the motor up, I'll probably have to go back and do -16 lines. I think -20 may be overkill for the whole system, especially since the coolers are not plumbed that big. No sense having bigger hoses then the coolers will flow. You may also have some issues with the coolers having different size fittings and how that will effect the overall flow. If you wanted to use -20 from the tank back to the motor, I can agree with that, you want to make sure there is plenty of oil coming to the motor. Then use -16 from the motor to the oil coolers. This is what I'd like to see some additional answers on.

As to the routing, mine enter the car just above the floor on the vertical section below the rear seat on the passenger side. Maybe that is what you are calling the bulkhead. The hose that comes off the case goes around and is held in place on the side cover of the tranny by a rubber lined P-clamp. It then goes up and over the top of the tranny to reach the other side. I also use zip ties to keep the line from moving around too much.

I can't take any new pictures as my motor is out of the car again. This is an old picture from when I was doing some other work. The two lines with the orange fire sleeve are the oil lines. The one on the right most of the picture is going to the oil tank The one going over the tranny also has a red rubber cover to keep it from rubbing and shorting out on the starter. The line with the silver colored sleeve is the fuel line.



Hope this helps.

[Tspringer]

John,

Thanks, your pic and suggestions do give me some ideas.

My engine is a Dave White Racing build 3.4L twin plug, it is higher compression but nothing crazy, carillo rods, GE80 cams, 50mm PMOs, all the typical go fast stuff. Red line set at a conservative 7200. The engine dyno'd at 320hp at the crank but has a nice fat torque curve. I didnt want a hand grenade engine but something that could last a good while.

I am going with the AN20 fittings and line with the internal coil support to run from the front oil tank to the engine feed line. This is pretty simple to route.

I still am not sure what to do with lines from the engine to the front coolers.

AN-12 not enough??? AN-12 is fine??? Must I drop $1K on all new lines and fittings or is the AN12 stuff I have good to go??

Lets hear some opinions!

[Tspringer]

Bump....


Am I the only one to contemplate the -12 vs -16 issue???

[gestalt1]

i am running an-16 send and return lines and i mounted the thermostat for the front cooler in the trunk. the cooler (center mount) has an-12 fittings so i have short an-12 hoses to bulkhead fittings and then to an-16 to the thermostst. my oil tank is in the stock location. i ran the an-16 lines in the heater tubes in the rockers, i have headers and no heat. if you are using an-20 for your oil tank you should try and use an-20 from the engine to the tank all the way, no an-12 except for the coolers. bigger is better but i think your oil tank acts like a big cooler, so i think the an-12 would be ok for the cooler lines. as long as you have them already, why not use them for now and later upgrade. hope this helps.
-matt

[barney911rs]

Terry,

With that engine, I'd suggest you call Dave White and see what they say. They built the motor and are going to know what kind of oil flow it's going to need to keep it cool and lubricated. You think the hoses are expensive, spin a rod bearing and have to rebuild the motor because of lack of oil and you will really have a $$$$ bill to pay.

Running -16 lines to a -12 cooler won't help much. Just moves the restriction farther down the pipe. If they say you can get enough flow to keep the oil out of the sump via the scavenge side of the pump with the -12, go for it.

If I was doing it from scratch, I think I would do -16, and try and sell your -12 lines to recover some of your invenstment. Will the Elepahnt cooler with the -16 connections fit in the nose, that should be enough cooling by itself.

[Tspringer]

Dave seem to think -12 or -16 would work fine... but then Dave is sometimes so laid back it makes one wonder! He didnt seem to think that the engine would suffer oil starvation if I was running -12 lines.

Very true on the cooler fittings. The front cooler I have has -12 fittings and they cannot be changed, I would have to get a new cooler. So no point in upgrading the lines unless I am also going to upgrade the cooler.

I figure to buy a new front cooler with -16 fittings, the -16 fittings for the elephant cooler and alll the other -16 fittings and hoses I would need.... it would probably run about $500. So is having -16 rather than -12 oil flow going to make $500 difference?

At this point I am leaning towards saying screw it and blowing the $500 and using all new cooler and hardware. Ouch. Again.

Anyone need a bunch of -12 stuff ?

[DW SD]

Terry,
I was faced with the same dilemna and chose to do -16. In fact, I redid the whole cooling system from scratch when I went from the 3.2 to the 3.6. $500 difference is modest relative to the other issues.

I've also read that the increase in load on the scavenge system (with -12) can tax the intermediate shaft (which drives both the lubrication side of the oil pump and the scavenge side).

Could be BS, but $500 is the cost of an engine R&R at a shop. A rebuild is far more, obviously.

You can go two routes when joining to hard factory oil lines (if you choose to run hard lines). I liked the hard lines better than having flexible lines running the length of the car. I chose Elephant Racing's version with the fins.

In connecting to the factory fittings I bought the 30mm to -16 unions from Patrick Motorsport. They are about $22. You can buy the fitting all in one (30mm to -16 hose) from Mocal's supplier, BATINC.net, also. But those are $60 each. It was cheaper to buy a union and normal -16 for me.
Hope that helps a bit,

Doug

[Tspringer]

Thanks Doug.

I spoke to Dave White again and after discussing it he does agree that going to -16 is the proper action. I am not using hard lines as the oil lines will run through the interior of the car. It is a full on race car, so aesthetic issues are not a concern. I have the finned Elephant lines on my '69 911S however and they have been great.

I am not laying out the oil line routing with rope and tape to figure it all out so I can determine exactly what fittings I will need, then I will order the stuff through JEGS and other places.