do your power windows work with out the key in ignition

[mr toro]

i am trying to work on an electrical issue and wanted to know if your power windows operate without the key in the ignition.

Cheers
cenk

[rdrr]

Mine work without the key in the ignition if the driver door is open. If it is closed, they don't work.

[Por_sha911]

With my `87, they work until you open a door. Once a door is opened, the power is off. This is also true for the sunroof.

[mr toro]

thank for he quickly reply. Unfortunately mine is the same way. I guess I will move on to the power antenna. Trying to find a short is like a dog chasing its tail, only fun for a second then gets boring.

[mr toro]

i should have prefaced by including that mine is a 1980 sc. The later cars are similar to my audi where if you come to a stop, take the key off ignition, the electrical controls will work until a door is opened. I think that started in 88 but i could be wrong on the date.

[craigster59]

My 83 sc works w/ key off, doors open or closed.

[mr toro]

thanks for the replies. how do you like the a3?

[porsche930dude]

intresting. i never even tried without the key on

[Mysterytrain]

Interesting, I picked up a harness on ebay a while back that provides the convenience feature of allowing you to operate the power windows when you open the doors. Pretty simple concept, power is provided via a relay that is triggered but the door jam light switches. I've been curious as to what year/model this wiring option appeared. I've never seen the harness mentioned in the PET or in the shop manuals.

[DGW]

My 83 SC windows only work if the key is on. Mine is a Targa.

[81 911 SC]

My 81 SC windows work with the key out and doors open. In order to make this work I believe you need to do some rewiring.

[Wil Ferch]

I've posted on this before.

If you just came-in from driving the car and shut down the engine...you can open/close the window as many times as you like WITH THE DOOR STILL CLOSED. As soon as you open ( and re-close) the door, then the PW and Power sunroof should NOT function. If they do, you have a ( misfunctioning) constantly-energized relay that ( I'm told) will drain your battery in less than 2 days...certainly inside of a week.

Caveat...this is how USA spec cars are wired. Can't vouch for ROW.

- Wil

[Mysterytrain]

Ok, I did some additional research on this harness. The part number for the harness I have been refering to is 911-612-147-01
It looks like a special order item and the price is just $395 dollars..yep!
It is listed in the 84-86 section of the PET but I have never seen it in a wiring diagram. The earlier part is 911-612-147-00 and sells for $18.00. The difference is that the -01 part has an additional relay socket.
I've included a modified factory wiring schematic showing how the harness is connected. The wires that are in color are what is in the harness. I should also note that the factory harness [ in the factory sealed bag] appears to be the original -00 harness that 'Hans' modified by adding an additional relay socket and splicing some of the wires..geez, German labor is expensive!



So the way it works is the red/white wire is only hot when the ignition is in the run position. So with the car turned off the power window relay does not function.
The convenience relay gets power from the Red/blk wire that is always hot. The solenoid is tied to ground thru the door switch. When you open one of the doors the solenoid is activated sending power to fuse 21 and allowing you to open or close the windows with using the ignition switch. Pretty slick!

[Navaros911]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
( I'm told) will drain your battery in less than 2 days...certainly inside of a week.

Caveat...this is how USA spec cars are wired. Can't vouch for ROW.

- Wil

Wil,

I don't even want to think about challenging your 911 knowledge, but mine are always hot. I can open close as much as I want, ignition off, doors open/closed... it doesn't matter.

That may not be normal for my car, I don't know and, quite frankly, I don't care either. What I do know is that it doesn't drain my battery even after four weeks. So whoever gave you that info may have had that problem on one/more cars, but it is not always the case.

This may depend on the electrical setup and as you pointed out; mine is a RoW so that may be different anyway.

- Michiel

[Wil Ferch]

Michiel:
I see you have an ROW car..... notice my caveat about that ??

I do know that the USA cars of my vintage ( '85 +/-) work as I describe...and show much more than ( spec) 16 mA drain when the windows always function .....

- Wil

[Mysterytrain]

Here is what I think about 'always hot'...if you look at the power window relay in the schematic I posted you will notice that it is activated whenever the car is running. My guess is that the contacts fuse themselves together and that you end up with an 'always hot' condition, that or someone moves the red/white wire to an always hot terminal in the fuse box. The later is a real bad idea because it leaves the solenoid energized constantly. Nice way to drain the battery or worse!
I think the later carrera's used an electronic module in place of the relays.

[craigster59]

Originally posted by mr toro
thanks for the replies. how do you like the a3?

Almost as much fun as the 911. Faster, but the 911 is more fun to drive.

[mr toro]

Wil

Thank you for the insightful reply. Here is my dilemna. My battery drains in a couple of days. I have disconnected the negativ post, jumped it with a test bulb. It lights up. I removed each fuse one by one to see when the light went out but it did not. I tried every relay and fuse including the ones in the engine compartment. Are there any unfused circuits in the car? What are your thoughts as I miss driving the 911.
thanks
cenk

[Navaros911]

Originally posted by craigster59
Almost as much fun as the 911. Faster, but the 911 is more fun to drive.

Not for me... much slower (and diesel stinks), but it's got A/C a usable trunk and four people can sit in it... oh yeah, it goes 600mi on one tank

I'd like the 2.0T I think

[rick-l]

I thought there was something wrong with my 88 because the windows worked with the door open.

I thought there was something wrong with the controller. So I took it aprt and reverse engineered it.

Power Window Relay

It should work with the door open OR the ignition on.