I will not ever buy the 997. As far as I am concerned the 993 is the last of the great Porsche's. I realize that is old fashoned, but I just think the air cooled is the Porsche........

As great as 993's are compared to water cooled cars and earlier engines, they too have their faults... Joel Reiser from the PCA tech dept. has been saying for years that carbon is a killer for the 993 engine and can cause a bunch of money to leave your wallet.

I'm sure many of you have read this but here goes. It' a reprint from PCA's tech section

Yes unfortunately we hear of this all the time now. Usually it is the air injection ports which are blocked by carbon, not the cylinders. Sometimes it is the check valve for the smog pump (let's hope so). Either way it is an emissions issue. I would see if they will correct it under the emissions warranty. If not, even if it runs fine, I would still want to see if they can remove the smog pump and blow out the passages with solvent and compressed air. Once the stuff hardens it cannot be cleaned, and an engine rebuild will be required to drill it out. So if you can catch it before it is too late, that is a big save.

The first thing to do is have them determine if the passages are clogged, or whether it is the check valve or something else that is easy to replace.

You did not say if it was running well, or if they read the fault codes out of the DME. If there is a specific fault code, or if it is not running right, we need to know which one(s) before we can come to any conclusions.

The air injection system blows fresh air on the EPA test probe, and is said to provide a catalyst to the chemical reactions occuring in the exhaust stream to make a slight improvement to the emissions quality. With one of the two sets of three passages completely blocked, or one or more of the six secondary passages blocked, the effect of this system will be reduced by 16.7% per cylinder.

As emissions go, this is a minor problem unless your state requires testing, and your car is new enough to require passing an emissions test. You could also be OK if your car is old enough to be exempt from the tests in your state. If your car is new enough to require testing, hopefully it is new enough to be fixed under the emissions warranty.

The exhaust quality will still be better than for a car without emissions equipment. It is far less severe than having a bad catalytic converter, or a misfire, or one dead cylinder, or a bad ignition coil, or a broken dual ingition distributor drive belt, or a bad leak in the intake system, or a bad mass air flow sensor, or a bad oxygen sensor (lambda sensor), etc. You will still have a good mixture, all six cylinders running, correct feedback loop, intact diagnostics, and a very slight increase in emissions.

I do not know if the emissions reading will pass, however, a Check engine light is now an automatic failure of the test, even if the exhaust readings are OK.

Now if it turns out your car is not running right, you can try Chevron Techron, people have used that before to reduce carbon buildup INSIDE the cylinders, but I would want to know how in the heck you had bad fuel in only HALF of the engine, and I would still want to know what are the fault codes your DME is holding to turn on the Check Engine light.

Because every other weenie up and down the street has a 993 or newer and very few people have a hot rod SC.....or earlier one.

why does one have to pull something down from a web site and belittle a 993 engine. Every engine has its faults. everyone of them!

just buy a 914 and stick a chevy in it...be done!....

you have to do what you want to do, its what makes america great. don't listen to any of us, just your heart and sole...don't even listen to your bank account...you can't take it with you when you meet your maker!!!

I just figured out that "pole," in the title of the thread means poll, like vote...and here I thought the guy was a Central European.

I'll fix that.

:)

Excellent Replies gentlemen and well thought out passionate raps about feelings, speed and horsepower not to mention all this while driving the old tubs. Good hobby enthusiast replies.
But, consider this.
You can lighten a 993 as well, granted not as light but you can drive it faster and safer at a given speed and circumstance. It may not have that earlier tin feeling we have all grown to love but the 993 has it's blend of charater as well.

Now on to point 2 of the poll:
So just for arguments sake, just what would a nice rolling tub be worth after you take the 3.6 and transmission out? I mean our passions here beg the question because sooner or later you are going to off the car as the passion wanes and what or how are you going to do that. Sell it as a package upgrade deal for what you have in it and maybe (most likely) take a big hit or sell the engine and or engine and trans then sell the rolling tub?
993's are continuing to come down in price as time goes by. Will the cost of the 3.6 engine cost drop as well. I mean i could have bought a varioram 3.5 years ago from various sources for anywhere between $ 7,500 to 9,500 with a selection of mostly good low mileage engines. Now the mileage on these engines nearing the tired limit and guys are still asking $ 7,500 to $ 9,500 for this same but tired hardware. Point here is the prices of the engine asking price and accusitions costs for upgrades must go down to continue any continued growth in the 3.6 upgrade decision otherwise the step to the complete 993 platform will be the only way to go for most of us. I know weekend racers will continue as upgrade banner carries yet driving a "race car" around as a daily driver gets a little tired after while and that uniqueness wheres off pretty quick. Sure park it in the garage for the track day but ask yourself just how much true utility are you getting out of it? Wouldn't a great driver be better for most of us?

So let's hear what everyone has to say. It's good to tell the doctor here everything and get it off your chest once and for all.

P.S. The pro's for the swap camp still looks mighty compelling. What do the cons for the 993 purchase camp have to say?

antares
fatnwide

jbabic wrote:
Wouldn't you want to know the pitfalls if you were planning on spending a bunch of money???

Thus, the greatness of the 964!! ;)

Yup...good engine donors....:D

When I see an older 911 on the road I think, there is a guy that likes cars. I like cars, I like the drive, I like raw and unrefined. This is why I set out to find and pay a premium price for a 1980SC with a 3.6 swap. I had never driven a 3.6 swapped 911 but from what I was reading, this was what I was after.

An 1980 Targa SC as clean as mine would demand 10-12K. I paid 23K for my 3.6 swapped car, I have had it almost 2 years and I have logged close to 20K trouble free miles on it. In 9 days I will be at a PCA Autocross with it where, last time out the only Porsche faster than it out there was a GT3 with race tires and he was not very much ahead. I am on street tires and a bone stock suspension.

In 4 weeks I am driving it 730 miles to North Carolina to my vacation home to keep it there for the rest of the summer. Then it will be flogged on the Tail of the Dragon a lot and brough back to Florida in the Fall.

Its a do all and I love it. I love the ride I love the torque and I love the rawness of it all.

Edit*
Gratuitous video of it being Autocrossed added.

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Garrett beat me to it.:)

How true.

they can be built up pretty stoutly, make sure the tranny can handle it...
;) 1st car I go around is a 993 w/ cams. Video is only good till the 2 min mark, that's when I F/Ued the box.

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It depends on what you value, I suppose. Some people value the classic look, and are willing to put a lot of money into a car they'll never get back. Others are more practical and opt to spend their money on a younger car where the maintenance costs for everyday use should be less.

I opted out of an SC for a Boxster. Roughly about the same performance power-wise, so not a big switch there(though the Boxster is better on the low rpm end). The Boxster is also an everyday car, and is more reliable and infinitely more comfortable. You can't drive those old cars everyday without putting big bucks into them you won't get back. You rarely get your investment back in any car, for that matter. I traded my SC for what I bought it for, but I didn't get back the $2K or so I put into it. I still probably came out ahead in the long run. And I got to own an SC, one of the sports car icons.:)

Interesting you'd say that a Boxster is more comfortable than your SC. When I was shopping for a car, I drove a couple of Boxster's and in each case, it killed my back and there wasn't enough leg room. I'm 6'1 and weigh 200 so I'm not overly "large" Conversly, my 73.5 T has much more room and far more comfortable to drive.

Don't hate me but I just prefer the look of an longhood,sc,964 over the 993 "modernerer" sleek look.

997 GT3s kick arse. If I were rich, I'd be tracking one in a heartbeat.

I think I'm going to buy a 993 and put a 3.0L engine in it. Just to be different...

Am I missing something? This thread has no poll included where I can vote by clicking?

I went to a 993 from my SC just for the reasons you noted. I got a 3.6, 18 inch wheels, big reds, brake cooling, working air conditioning, "new" paint, rear wing, twin plug ignition, coilovers ... and on top of all this, I'll be able to sell for a reasonable price, once I am ready for my 993 biturbo. ;)

Of course, if you think that 993s are ugly, you have to modify your accordion bumper car and spread the horror stories of CEL problems in the 96-98 993 cars. I have yet to meet a person in my local club that had this issue. Seriously, are those clogged passages really a big deal for a DIYer? A set of new seals and a long weekend is all you need, if you don't have to pay someone for the labor. And I am still a believer that the Italian tuned cars are less prone to this issue ... ;)

George

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