How hot does your 2.7 run
 

Just curious. I haven't even received my car yet but I'm trying to research as much as possible. Thanks

ALL flat sixes should NORMALLY run 180-210F. It's a reflection on the thermostats.....

Keeping it there depends on how hard you push it. Extra or larger oil coolers help keep it in this range.

The US delivered 2.7s suffered from the Thermal Reactors required by the EPA. Hopefully your new ride has had them removed.....

Thanks. Is it difficult to remove the Thermal Reactors? I have built several engines for vintage mustangs and shelbys but I know nothing about the 911's yet. I'm sure I will when the car arrives. Thanks.

If the engine has never been apart...yes, the nuts can be a PITA. However most 2,7s died an early death due to the excess heat.....got any history on the drive train?

Might want to consider doing a search on the subject....

Some states require them for smog...unless you get a slightly less than attentive smog tech.....

I live in MI and I think they are exempt. The engine was rebuilt about 400 miles ago. I will ask the PO. Thanks!

If it was rebuilt hopefully the studs were redone with timeserts/case savers. The heat from the TRs caused the studs to pull out of the block.

Consider Wayne's book(s) available on the site.....

Welcome to the insanity.

My 2.7 with SSIs and a front oil cooler runs right at 180 with A/C. If I get caught in a freeway jam on a summer day with temperatures in the 90 - 100 deg range, it will creep up to 205. But as soon as I'm moving again, it cools back down.

Thanks for all the replies. I think this book is coming with the car. It seems everyone I talked to about buying their car has it.

I live in MI too and my 2.7 normally runs at 170-190 degrees and never goes above 190, even driving in heavy traffic in FL when it was 85 degrees. I have the Carrera-style external oil cooler and I ran Castrol 20W50 until recently when I switched to AMSOIL 20W50, which dropped my temps by 10 degrees. I have the stock heat exchanger/exhaust and Webers.

Art, do you live near Royal Oak? Where can I get this external oil cooler? Sounds like a good mod.

chatas17,

I live in Wyandotte and work in Novi, so I spend alot of time on I-275, but I don't get to Royal Oak much. You can find the external oil coolers on the "used parts for sale" forum here and you could install it yourself if you have the tools, facility and mechanical ability. There are places that sell new oil coolers, but they are very expensive. Mine came with the car and works very well.

Thanks Art. I just checked on a new one. $568! I think I will look in the used section as you suggested. Seems easy enough to install.

Yeah, but Art, Helga keeps stranding you...I told you she wants to come down under!

JohnJL,

Very funny! Actually, Helga has been running great since I picked her up at Tab's shop on 12/22/26 and I put about 4000 miles on her since then, most notably the trip to FL the 1st week of March this year, which was a 3300 mile trip. I believe this problem is fuel/carb related and a smarter person probably could have fixed it themselves, I'm just not very smart!

I love the Webers, especially with the new engine... Helga runs strong and I'm able to enjoy the car, instead of worrying about what will break next! This latest problem is a minor blip on the radar and I'm just looking forward to driving the car again as this is prime "Porsche driving season" here in Michigan.

chatas,
The actual cooler itself you will probably be able to find used. The hard items to find are the thermostat and oil lines that run from the motor up to the front right wheelwell, which is where the cooler resides. There are kits out there that contain everything you need but they are around $1000 (thats what I bought). Before the cooler my car operated around 225 and would get up to 250 or more in traffic. It never gets above 190 now.

Jesse
76 911S

On 90 F days mine will get up around 230 in traffic. $1000 for a complete oil cooler kit is slated. That is cheap insurance when compared to a rebuild.

I had the local shop install the front oil cooler kit on my '75. It was about $1K installed, but included the cooler, all lines and the thermostat. It also involved welding a bracket to support the cooler and relocating the horns.
It was definitely worth it - before the cooler and and engine rebuild I saw temperatures in the 260 deg range(!). Now they rarely get over 180 deg.

chatas17
When I removed my reactors I used a torch on every nut and they all came off. While you are there, use heat and replace all the studs and put back using anti seize. Be careful with the heat and not melt the head. I would use heat on any exhaust being taken apart. If you can not use heat you can use a nut cracker and kroil. In fact use kroil before using heat or the cracker. It never hurts to let it soak with kroil or like spray.

Max 215F on the track on a hot day. Never over 190F on the street. I have RSR-style front oil cooler and a pretty hi-po 2.7L (240hp)

No external oil cooler - not even lines to a trombone, No A/C, thermal reactors gone, 1975 CA engine, 54K miles, never rebuilt.

Hot days - 220F taking it easy. On the track on 80 deg day - it was at 250F !

Thanks for the information on improvements with the external cooler - further rationale to make this my next expensive project.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like I have my first project.

I wouldn't rush right out to buy that oil cooler until you drive the car and see where it's at. Chances are excellent that if it was rebuilt, all the right stuff has been done to it; i.e. timecerts, 11 blade fan, thermal reactor removal, air pump removal, air pump plugs, etc. But if not, you have other places where your money is better spent. Swapping out the 5 blade fan (there are some still out there) for the 11 blade fan would be a much better investment than the oil cooler. If all that stuff has been done already, the car may run at a good temp w/o the new oil cooler. FWIW, my 77 ran cool in Wisconsin even on track days. Lots of folks in this region actually block off their oil coolers early in the season-like July. ;)

Good one.

Good advice too.

Don

Good point SLO-BOB. The shipper picked up the car today so it should be in my driveway within the next week. You guys don't realize the change I'm about to make. I have owned mustangs and shelbys for the past 15 years. Now there will be a "German" car in my driveway. I think my neighbors will freak. should be cool. I always loved these cars when I was growing up.

If you have a good running thermostat....that's not needed. Run it and see what is needed.....

If you ARE NOT running a thermostat on an air cooled engine and it NEEDS a block on a cooler during the winter, it's a ""Billy Bob" fix......

Flame away.....

No flames. I guess we just have a lot of Billy Bobs at the track. :)I'm not suggesting that blocking an oil cooler off is good or bad- just what I've seen. What I am saying is it would be foolish to assume one needs the above and beyond oil cooler before driving the car and assessing it's running condition. Especially considering he lives in a relatively cooler climate.

Chatas 17- While tastes are subjective I'll say you are in for a treat. I've driven a number of Mustangs and while they both are sports oriented cars, they couldn't be more different. The 911 won't be as torquey fast as the stang, but it will make up for it in the handling department. Nine 11s point way better- you'll love how you can just forget about the brakes (within reason) on city street corners and just turn the wheel and the car will follow with no drama. You'll probably hate the way it shifts. Second gear is usually pretty notchy. Do a search on how to shift a 915 gearbox-it's NOTHING like your stang.

Despite that, the positives make it all worth it. I'll never be w/o a 911 again. Welcome to the club!

Funny story. I had a friend at work years ago who thoght his 5.0 Stang was the coolest car ever. I bet him $50 that he couldn't beat my 2.4 911 (T with S engine) from 40 MPH to 100. He took the bet, I took his money.

Chatas, enjoy the new car and let us know how it runs when you get it.

Don

Thanks for the welcome. I have to admit, I'm pretty excited about driving the car. It is on it's way as I type. The history on the 911 has always been in the back of my head. The targa is mainly for my wife. I am looking for a coupe if everything works out. I figure I will pick up another 2 feet in my garage with the 911 replacing the mustang! My mustang (fastback) hit the reserve on Ebay last night. I guess it's going Thanks again, Jim

Heat
 

I have a 74 2.7 and I have done allow to make sure I dont overheat the motor. If my motor gets to 210 its because I am pushing it hard!

1. Get the Oil cooler for the front right fender,
2. Some people use other brands but I use the LUCAS oil treatment..1 for every 4 quarts. this will lower the temps and treat your engine right.
3. Check out this thread and my post for the other necessary oil system mod, this will do great things for your pressure and foaming...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/309123-oil-spewing-oil-tank-breather.html
4. Clean your motor, top and bottom....remove the alternator and clean out all the gunk and dirt from the top of the motor. All of this dirt and grease traps heat.
5. Clean your oil tank, you would be surprised how much dirt and junk surround your oil tank and keep heat in.
6. get rid of the heat reactors and go with the SSI setup for the exhaust. The cooling fan helps cool the headers and cuts down on radiant heat.
7. I got the "HEAT SHEETS" for the valve covers and they look nice, and they say they work, but I cant offer any real proof.

Just take the time to invest in cooling your motor. That is the key to a healthy 2.7.... Guys would run temps 250 and higher and the studs would pull right out due to the different expansion rates of the metal combined with other little odd ball reasons.

Chris

I have 127K miles on my un-rebuilt '76 2.7 and it has NO external oil cooler. The 5 blade fan and the thermal reactors were removed very early in its life by the original owner. It runs 180 to as much as 210 on hotter days; usually about 190. But remember I am in Southern California where it is usually warm, the traffic is bad and I don't use it as a daily....the traffic is just too consistent to make driving it every day much fun. I can hardly ever get into 3rd gear!

Anyway, I ONCE got caught in traffic and it went up to 240 biefly and I was about to pull over and shut it down before traffic eased up and I was able to get moving. The temp dropped quickly back to about 210.

I agree that MOST of the 2.7's have had the TR's and 5 blade fans removed. Afterall, the newest of these engines is 30 years old!

One last comment: You're used to driving Mustangs? You realize this car isn't made for the same purpose as the Mustang, right? What I'm driving at is it won't tolerate repetitive dropped clutches, etc. Just thought I'd make the comment.

Cleaning the engine, oil tank, oil cooler(s), lines, etc... can all help to lower temps. when I replaced my 2.7L engine last summer, I cleaned everything up while i had easy access and the temps dropped. Stuck-on grime, oil, debris, etc... can't help.