Help. Simple distributor issue
 

Hey== I changed plugs, rotor, and cap.

No start/spark.

Yes, I've searched my a$$ off and can't figure out the issue.

I think the cap is not seating properly as the forward clamp is extremely hard to engage and disengage while the back clamp is easy.

I broke the new rotor already and have reinstalled the old one, still no spark.

any tips? getting just a bit frustrated. I believe the wires are sequenced correctly on the cap based on photos.

thanks in advance, Jack

gratuitous image.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181414319.jpg

What is the firing order? What is the direction of distributor rotation? What wires are on what terminals of the cap?

Got it started but runs like crap.

I slid the wires around on the cap one slot as I think I was off. The #1 is just ccw of the hump on the cap on which the clasp fits. I verified the order with the diagram on the car.

The rotor moves ccw, verified by the 5th gear rocking trick.

Could I have upset the timing somehow effing with the thing?

thks

I just put the car at TDC and verified that the rotor points to #1. But no start at all now.

the cap seems to be seating well now.

You could be 180 deg off. TDC could be #4 also. Rotate again to Z1 reset rotor to #1.

Just this week, I had an issue where my car would stop and not start up again. It would crank just fine but it wouldn't fire. I took it to the mechanic and it was determined that the Distributer signal wire was bad so we replaced it and it started up right away and in the day I've had it back, it has not stopped on me. One other thing. One of the leads to the terminals on my coil was shorting out on the spark plug wire ground shielding. We rerouted and rewired some PO handiwork and the car runs like a Champ.

Good Luck.

Think I did that. Lined up Z1 on the pulley and the narrow end of the rotor is pointing to #1 wire--right? i did notice z1 also pointed to #4 though which I think is also right.

How could I have made it 180 degrees off just by changing the cap?

I also put the old cap back on, which fit better, but no start either.

Thanks for the reply. Jack

Update: I lifted the inner cover off the distrib (under the rotor) and there was a piece of metal in there along with a little piece of rotor plastic--the metal was def from the rotor which cracked up. still won't start though. also double checked wires at the plugs.

???

Not so simple a aproblem for someone like me so I appreciate the advice. J

Here are some pictures of the dist shaft and the inside of the rotor. I noticed that the protruding piece of plastic inside the rotor has sheared off a bit. could this be the problem?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181421913.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181421926.jpg

Possibly. Is it preventing you from indexing the rotor correctly?

holtjv,

It looks like you did not have your rotor seated all the way down, and when you cranked the engine, the rotor caught on the inside of the cap. Make sure the cap is OK, and that the rotor is seated all the way down. Then double check the wiring order on the cap - your distributor turns counterclockwise. The cap only attaches one way - look at the tabs on the inside lip.

I also sounds like #1 is in the wrong spot. Shouldn't #1 be just clockwise of the hump the clamp attaches to? Then they run counterclockwise from there 1-6-2-4-3-5

3 6
2 5
1 4

Huh. I'll double check, Walter, thanks. Bought a new rotor today, re-installed the plugs, all to no avail.

it must be in the dizzy.

Currently calming down with a gin and tonic and will hit it tomorrow.

thanks for the kind replies. Jack

morning bump, anyone?

You know you're lame when most of the posts are yours...

Anyway, I did put the cap on the other way and it fits better.

The car will turn over and almost start, so I believe its getting gas and spark.

thanks Jack

Jack,

Your problem has to be simple. Start from the beginning and double check what you have done.

Set the crank to Z1 at TDC for #1. That is when the rotor is pointing near where #1 should be (not #4).

Verify that the rotor is pointing to where you have the #1 plug wire attached to the distributor cap.

Verify the firing order from #1 counter clock wise around the cap.

This will fix your problem.

Judging by the picture, the distributor shaft hasn't seen much lube.

For an easy DIY service, go to:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/333640-distributor-service-clean-lube-real-easy-without-removing-pinion-gear.html

Follow the advise given to index your distributor correctly.
Make sure the rotor seats properly, check the inside of the cap for damage, especially the spring-loaded carbon pin.
Confirm the firing order on the ccw direction.
Use a timing light to set the 5deg BTDC.

I've re-verified everything multiple times. Is it possible that I blew a fuse somewhere? What are the possible consequences of starting the car with a dicked up dizzy that I haven't thought of?

I even checked the airbox for a stuck pop off valve but no luck.

I'll do it all again now.

And Gunter, you're right, the shaft is very dirty and there's some sort of soft padding material on which the rotor seats that's skanky looking.

Thank you all VERY much for the replies.

Ok, here's what I did:

1. removed cap
2. moved pulley to tdc

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181504228.jpg

3. ***NOTE** for the first time, the rotor was not pointing to 4 or 1 so I moved it to the notch in the distributor ccw. May have happened since I swapped the cap around?

5. verified the firing order and wires
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1181506017.jpg


6. checked for spark, yes

7. checked for fuel pump working. With key on, I hear a high pitched whine that does NOT change when I pull down on the fuel sensor plate arm--i guess I expected some other noise?

8. turned my alarm on and off (I always keep it off but once when I put a new battery in had to reset it).

thanks again. Jack

Oh..and just pushed UP on the sensor plate arm and heard the injectors "screaming". Jack

I don't know what you mean here. If the rotor was not pointing at #1, you need to move the wires around on the cap until #1 lines up with the rotor - or you need to re-index your distributor - but since you haven't had the distributor out, I don't think you need to re-index your distributor.

The rotor only goes on one direction - make sure it's correct.

The cap only goes on one direction - make sure it's also correct.

Well I have had the cap on 2 different ways, which surely accounts for how hard it was to fasten the clasps on it. It sits well on there now.

I'm feeling like I screwed something else up.

I have no idea why the rotor was not pointing at #1 before; it does now on TDC. But I did manually turn the rotor to the notch in the distributor which points it at #1.

Jack

Hang on; just read in bentleys about what the spark looks like, and mine was not a strong blue but more of a "yellow orange" spark, as they say.

J

This is not possible if the rotor is installed correctly. You should be able to move the rotor a little with the advance, but it should spring back into place.

Gunter - wasn't there someone recently that pulled part of their distributor out with the rotor? Could Jack have damaged his distributor with the broken rotor?

I finally saw the notch on the underside of the cap which fits into the notch on the front part of the dist. and now it seats perfectly. But still no start.

Rex, I know what you mean about the rotor springing back; but I definitely was able to move it ccw a good 100 degrees, from about where the 2 wire is to the 1.

thanks for helping, hope I didn't screw up the dist. JH

Your rotor is not installed correctly or it's broken. You already showed us the underside of one rotor so you know the problem. The plastic ridge in the bottom of the rotor must go into the notch on the distributor shaft. It takes alot of force to push it down into place sometimes and you have to rotate it as you do to engage in the slot. Yours wasn't in the slot so you were able to rotate it. It also means your rotor wasn't pushed down enough and will cause problems putting the cap on.

-Andy

Got it!

Andy, your comment about the notch on the underside of the rotor helped me figure out that I had the rotor on 180 wrong. Absolutely moronic, but there you go.

Thank you all for helping me with this silly issue, but my goodness I've learned a lot.

This thread is officially closed.

Jack

But wait, there's one more thing. In the course of this process I have an entry for "stupidist things you've done" thread. I'll enter it here so that those who followed this thread can get even MORE amusement from my antics:

As I was reinstalling the sparkplugs, one came out of the socket and fell down inside the top end. Using my handy mirror I could see that it was <i>right</i> there. So I stuck one finger down there, then another and...you guessed it. My fingers were hopelessly stuck in the port. Wife and daughter were gone, I was already hot and pissed from the whole thing, and somehow my fingers immediately swelled to 3x their normal size.

Hurt like a muther to try to pull them out.

The fix? I pulled out the dipstick and dribbled oil on my fingers and voila! Success #1 for the weekend. Good thing I was on the right side of the car.

Jack

Jack:
I am getting worried about you.
Some people do more damage to their cars by simply not knowing what they are doing.
I suggest a lot more reading/studying/searching.
The 2 clips for the distributor have a different length and forcing them over the cap that is misaligned (Not seated in the cut-out) is asking for it.
If your rotor was not down in the notch of the shaft, you most likely damaged the carbon pin in the cap.
Get a new rotor and check the cap for damage.
The felt plug inside the shaft under the rotor needs to come out, then a few drops of oil are dripped into the hole and the plug is replaced.
That lubes the mechanical advance.
The distributor should be serviced properly.
Did you read my post on this?
Friendly advise:
You seem mechanically challenged; have the distributor serviced by a professional because distributors are the heart of your engine, very important and very expensive.
Set the timing dynamically with a strobe light.

Thanks Gunter. You're right, I am mechanically challenged but a fast learner. This situation really made me mad because it was like getting lost right after getting those directions from someone who added, "you can't miss it".

I did read your advice on servicing the distributor and will do so this weekend--already ordered another rotor and cap from PP, so thinking what you were thinking there. Will set the timing, too.

But I will most likely keep doing these things; I am fortunate enough to afford a new engine/car if I screw something up. So like a lot of people (most, probably) on this board, I find the challenge and eventual success very fulfilling. Of course, I wouldn't attempt any of this stuff without this board and the helpful advice of people like you.

In the process of trying to figure out this really simple issue, I read somewhere around 100 posts, learning a lot of other things which will help me out down the road, I'm sure.

So I will take your advice on servicing the distributor but will not take your advice on continuing to do things myself, screwing up occasionally, then getting it right. I hope you're not offended by this and maybe, just maybe, some other mechanically-challenged newb will search on this post and not have to go through the 2 days of intense personal frustration and disappointment.

Kind regards,

Jack