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88 turbo won't start.... frustrated

Beautiful, stock '88 Turbo (36k miles, just purchased from younger brother), was idling in driveway and just quit. Won't restart. The fuel pumps don't run, there doesn't seem to be any spark. The CDI box makes noise like it should. Turns over fine. No fuel, no spark... figured DME relay... didn't fix the problem. Here's what I have tried... am out of ideas now.

1. Known Good CDI box
2. Coil Impedances fine.
3. New Delay Relay (the yellow one)
4. New DME relay (under driver's seat)
5. Switching fuel pump relays.

Things I'm contemplating:
1. Ignition switch?
2. Motronic control box.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. The service guy at the local dealership gets a really frightened look on his face when I ask him about working on the car. Of course he doesn't mind charging the $500 or $600 service bills on my boxter or cayenne!
Charles Carter in Indianapolis

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Charles "Chuck" Carter
'72 911 T
'88 TURBO
'99 Boxter
'04 Cayenne
Old 06-29-2007, 07:42 AM
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I don't beleive 930s have a DME relay and/or Motronic...they are CIS. That box under the driver's seat is probably for the Lambda system and/or the factory alarm if your car is so equipped.

A couple of things to check regarding the fuel pumps:
1. Behind the fuel metering housing on top, there should be an electrical plug. You have to feel around from the driver's side, but it should be there unless it's been tampered with. If it's there, carefully pull it. When you switch on the key, you should hear the fuel pumps run... if you don't it could be a fuse and/or fuel pump relay.

2. The fuel pump relays are located on the luggage compartment fuse panel and should be red in color and round in shape. I think they are the two closest to the windshield. You might want to try switching them out by borrowing another red relay form else where on the fuse panel. Be sure to keep the wiring disconnected from the air/fuel metering housing as the fuel pumps won't run unless this wiring is disconnected.

3. There is also a fuel pump fuse. On my 1987 it's the 6th fuse from the windshield. Check to be sure it's not blown. Check to be sure the wiring is good and not corroded. The only time my car experienced a fuel pump problem was due to this fuse.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:10 AM
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If you can get the fuel pumps to run, re-connect that wiring and see if it will start.

That wiring is a "safety feature" to keep the fuel pumps from running unless the car is actually running. That's why you ususally can't hear the fuel pumps run unless the car is running. Many people leave it disconnected...I prefer to keep it connected.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 06-29-2007 at 08:17 AM..
Old 06-29-2007, 08:14 AM
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Here is a picture of the connection I'm talking about on the housing. Looking into the engine compartment, it's around the back:
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 06-29-2007, 08:21 AM
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if you push down hard on the spring loaded mixture adjustment appendage, it will move the sensor plate and activate the fuel pumps, if they work. key on of course. you can hear the injectors whirring.
check the green coaxial wire on the side of the distrubutor for damage. they get crispy and frayed.
be sure the overboost switch is self grounded and the white wire is still attached.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:58 AM
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Also make sure that the plug going into the bottom of your CDI box is properly seated.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 06-29-2007, 08:58 AM
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Thanks so much for the replies!! I have heard tell of the TURBO not having MOTRONIC. BUT... under the driver's seat is a silver box that says "Motronic" on it I believe and there is a black relay, like the "DME Relay" I purchased from PELICAN that is just where it is supposed to be. There also are 2 large relays, one gold, one black on the floor by the big silver box. Doesn't that sound like a motronic system to you? I have been confused about this. Can anyone say for SURE that a stock '88 turbo does NOT have Motronic?

I will try disconnecting the wiring as you suggested and let you know if the fuel pumps run. I have tried switching the relays and checking the fuses. This car is in very very good condition, there has to be some single component that has failed... I think....

Again, thanks for the effort and the replies

Charles Carter
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'99 Boxter
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:50 AM
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This is a 1988 911 Turbo (AKA, 930) correct? If so, and it's "stock" it's CIS, not Motronic. It's not a "turbo look", right? I think it's option code M491 (which has the wide body and 930 brakes, but a normally aspirated engine).
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 06-29-2007, 10:57 AM
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I suppose there could still be some sort of relay under the seat though...something related to the Lambda control unit?
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 06-29-2007, 11:01 AM
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you'd have a box and relay under the seat for the Lambda (i.e., oxygen sensor) system on a CIS car of that year.
Old 06-29-2007, 11:03 AM
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What's weird is how it was idling fine the driveway and then just died. It's got gas right (don't laugh, you'd be surprised)? You checked all the connections on the coil and the primary wire that runs from the center of your dizzy to the coil? And as John Walker suggested, the green coaxial wire on the side of the dizzy has been known to fray.
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 06-29-2007, 11:13 AM
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You say your CDI is known to be good. Is that based on the whine/buzz it makes or did you test it in another car?

When my CDI died, it still made the sound. Easy way to know for sure is to swap with a running car.

I ended up trading my core in for a reman unit. Knowing what I know now, I would have either bought an MSD or gone distributorless.

Good luck.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:24 AM
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It is for sure a 930. Not a turbo look. It does indeed have gas. I will double check the box under the seat. I could swear it says Motronic on the top of it. Thanks again for all the help.

Charles Carter
Old 06-29-2007, 12:57 PM
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Of course you all are correct and that box is the lambda control for the oxygen sensor! Wonder what I hooked that new DME relay to under the seat. It's an exact fit.... yikes. The replacement CDI unit was one stated to be good by a fellow porsche enthusiast.
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'99 Boxter
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Old 06-29-2007, 01:06 PM
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The relay is for the frequency valve, part of the ox sensor system.

The box probably says Jetronic on it. Jetronic = CIS.
Old 06-29-2007, 01:15 PM
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Can we see a pic of this nice car? Sorry to be off topic
Old 06-29-2007, 03:10 PM
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Thanks for all the ideas on this non-starter. Tried disconnecting the green wire... still no fuel pumps. I think it may be time to give up and call in the calvalry. Guess I'll have it towed to the shop... bummer.

Chuck
Old 07-21-2007, 08:34 AM
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I don't know if the new DME relay you out in is the same as the old lambda relay you took out. Even though it fits, it may not function the same. Anybody know about this?

Was the old lambda relay kaput? Can you put it back in or swap in one from another car?
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Old 07-21-2007, 10:09 AM
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Is the overboost switch on the BOV/Recirc housing connetcted? I think it's a white wire (I've seen some that were white with a brown stripe). By the way, the yellow relay on the engine compartment fuse panel s the overboost relay.
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-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 07-21-2007, 10:21 AM
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Yea the overboosyt relay is connected... replaced it and I can hear the CDI box stay on for a second or two ofter the ignition is cut so I think it is doing what it's supposed to do. IT was the first thing I replaced. I also did put the original relay back in the Oxygen Sensor. I am out of ideas.

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'72 911 T
'88 TURBO
'99 Boxter
'04 Cayenne
Old 07-21-2007, 10:46 AM
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