Poll: Why spend 10K to put 3.6 in old 911? Buy a 993 instead?

[antares]

Here is the question you guys:
Point - 1) Why put 10k to 15k into an aging 911 instead of just buying a 993?
Look at it this way. You start out with your car you have now. Let's say you already have 15k into your say SC. Now your considering a 3.6 transplant upgrade. You buy the engine, all the associated mounting hardware and new engine/transmission parts needed to install it. Now don't forget the oil cooler upgrade and probably brakes upgrade. Then the smog referee bull you go through and walla you now have invested lets say maybe about 28,000 conservatively in the car inclusding your original purchase. Maybe even more. With the new power you need new and improved suspension, so... let's upgrade that as well. By the time you are done you have invested well beyond what you can get for the car even if the dollars have been spent with that overused " well it's a hobby..." rationale. fact is the money is spent. now take the 993. It already has the engine you want, fastly improved suspension and overall driveability and you can now buy it for less than you would have to put into the 911.
Point - 2) You are now seeing these coversion cars for sale. I have seen asking prices anywhere from $25k to $42k. Question: If you were to pull the engine and transmissions out of these cars only, then what would the rolling fully functional tub be worth? Surely if one can complete the upgrade for let's say $15k having someone else do it or $8k to $10k doing it yourself is the tub then worth say $14k as the numbers go?? I have not seen any tubs going for that much.

So let's hear what everyone has to say about this the pro's and con's. And afterwards i may still do a 3.6 upgrade on my 911 SC anyway ...

antares
fatnwide

[Venetian]

Lot of good points but I suspect many people like a "hot rod" or "sleeper" concept. Some probably enjoy the challenge as well.

[Wavey]

Light, simple, nimble car with a big motor. What's not to get?

[surflvr911sc]

First thing I would do if I bought a low milage (like my 3.6) 993 is take it apart and spend a good 5-10k upgrading it to what I want, and that's just for street use.

So now I'm into a 30k car + 10k-ish, that puts it right about where my car is, and my car is still faster.

Now if I was smart, I would buy a 964 in the teens and then build it to what I want. Still expensive in the long run but a great base, and much cheaper base to build a hot rod on then a 993.

[Goth]

Drove a 993 just last weekend. Lowered with PS9's & crazy wide tires. It handled great and the ride was incredibly smooth. I could see myself driving this car on long trips with ease. I really liked the car, but it just wasn't the same.

Got my 84 because it has no power steering, no ABS, no anti knock retard, etc.. I think this makes the engines power, and the cars handling very repeatable/predictable.

BTW: I don't drive mine every day, so ride comfort is not a big deal.

Just my .02

[rlh930]

Why go camping when you can stay in a hotel? Different strokes for different folks.

[Dkennel]

stupid question:
What is the performance gain with the 3.6 upgrade?
I like my 87 because it has no airbag, ABS, power steering, etc... a little more "old school" than a 993.
Would not mind to have a 2nd car though.. LOL

[jevvy]

Good questions antares, I'll try to add some thoughts from my experiences.

When looking to buy my current 3.2 (my second after regretting selling my first) I was also looking at 993's. Since owning a 911 the 993 was the model i always wanted for many reasons but a good one was just out of my price range when I was last looking(2 years ago). Why am I telling you this, we because I want you to understand I really wanted a 993 - until I put a 3.6 in my 3.2!

I DIY fitted the 3.6 into my tired 3.2 about 18 months ago and have had 20k trouble free miles since. The install was pretty simple and I have survived 2 track days on standard brakes and suspension so I dont see why any more would be needed for street use unless you drive like and idiot.

I was pleased as punch with how the car drove after the conversion, there was a good hike in power with no negative affects, I get better MPG with the 3.6 than I did with the 3.2 and the servicing is cheaper and easier too. I did my first track day late last year and this is when I started considering upgrading the brakes of which I'm part way through.

I have recently started lightening my car and it has really started to come to life. I weighed the car just before the recent changes and it was 1100kg, the seats battery etc I have since changed knock another 60 off that which puts it in the 1040kg area which = 261 bhp/ton or 8.4 lbs/hp which puts it in some pretty quick company. I rarely bump into many cars that are quicker then it day to day, obviously it gets eaten alive compared to some monsters that turn up on track but it happily keeps pace with a 997S's on the street (as fast as I dare go that is).

I loved my 3.2 when it was a 3.2 - I love it even more now it has a 3.6 and doubt I will ever get a 993 anymore, I just love the feel of the earlier cars a lot more. Heres a Vid showing a 993 Vram catching me on my first ever track day, he catches me at about 1.30, mines the blue coupe with the duck. Now you cant really compare corner speeds as I cant drive for **** but towards the end of the vid you get to see the diff speeds of the cars as they drag up the straights. Heres another vid of a 3.6 powered SC chasing a 997 at Snetterton except this guy can drive :-)

Sorry to ramble on so much but thought an insight into my journey might help you make a decision. I say go for it, you wont look back.

[on-ramp]

the early cars just look better than the 993... the ultimate car is the look of the early 911 with the performance of a 993. that's why people do it.

[GothingNC]

Watching those videos makes me want to stuff a 993 motor in my SC if the time comes

[SCHNELE]

It is nostalgia for me older 911s just pull at the heart strings for me. Financially it does not make sense similarly you can't put a dollar amount on true love.

[Chuck Moreland]

An early car can be 300-800 lbs lighter than a stock 993, easily.

And with that beefed up suspension, a light early car with 3.6 will wallop a stock 993 on the track.

What more could you want?

[EarlyPorsche]

Its simple, they never made a SWB 993.

[Dantilla]

I only have a 3.2 in my long hood, but I acheived the big motor/early car less expensively than most- I had an entire car for parts, not just an engine.

Having a wrecked, low mileage '87 (it was just a targa anyway) allowed for easy acces to all kids of stuff: Engine, wiring harness, aluminum trailing arms, yada yada, all sorts of nuts & bolts.

Then selling parts I didn't need further reeduced my cost.

I'm into my car for less than 993s are going for.

[drsimonwong]

The words "Porsche" and "money" fit comfortably into sentences.....but it's pretty hard to add the words "sensible", "rational", "financially prudent"...and pass a lie detector test....:-)

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Wavey
Light, simple, nimble car with a big motor. What's not to get?

Yep

[amersbell]

Jevvy,

I'm breathing hard afther the sound of of that SC and the 997. That SC sounds too cool.......

[Jbabic]

I did this same thing last year. I had 77 with a 3.0 in it...tracked it and found myself wanted more power, but with power you need brakes. I figured a 993 with the suspension, power, durability, might as well move up. I never looked backed. I have driven my car to Atlanta from Cincinnati, tracked it, drove up to New Jersey, tracked it, and drove home. 1900 miles..and still turn the key and go. 108k miles. I luv the car, can work on it, and its smooth. I love the body style and the mechanics of the car. 95 993...PSS9's, lowered, chip, Cup exhaust...I say make the move....my opinion of course.

[Jbabic]

[rdane]

There really isn't a comparison past the Porsche name.

You can easily get under 2300# on an older car and then stick a late 993 engine in. Light and nimble might be a descriptor used for a 993 but until you drive a early version 3.6 car the term will never be defined for you.

993s are cool cars. You can walk into any dealership and drive away with one. A 3.6 transplant done right takes time and some serious money. There is no real justification for either, past the incredible driving experience. Which BTW isn't for everyone.

I spent some time in a new 997S recently and got to drive the wheels off it. Very, very nice car. One I could live with on a daily basis. My 3.6 I would prefer be a weekend driver/ DE car.
My wife would love the 997. She isn't a big fan of the 3.6.

But when it comes to sheer enjoyment and driving pleasure for the driver you'll have a hard time duplicating a early car with 300 HP no matter how much money you spend or what car you buy.

There is no sane rational why you'd put the kind of money into a SC that it takes to get the car "right" with a 3.6. No question a 964, 993 or even later cars are a better buy.

But once you buy into the high HP and LWT conversions that Porsche has always done to its street cars to make a race car you have already lost the argument



Life is generally a series of compromises for most. Nice to have a few simple things in your life that aren't.