Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
fhernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 794
Final Sanding and Painting 101

Some of you have been following my threads on Metal Conditioning And Epoxy Priming 101, Bondo Work And Primer Application 101, Paint Stripping 101. My final thread is on Final Sanding And Painting 101. Hope you have enjoyed the threads.

We left off on applying the primer and adding a guide coat to the hood. Now we will cover the final prepping for painting.

I like to use 400 grit wet for final sanding. Some prefer dry sanding which does the same thing but dry with lot’s of dust. Note in the picture that I use two different size sanding blocks. Make sure that your blocks are flat. I apply a squirt of two of dish soap in my water. The dish soap helps to degrease and clean the surface as I sand. I also use a squirt bottle to apply my water to the surface. Make sure your water is clean and free of any debris that may scratch the surface. The small squeegee helps to remove the water and see the surface dry for any imperfections.

As you sand you will first sand through the black guide coat. The guide coat is very helpful to see how far you need to sand. If a low spot in the primer is discovered, keep blocking the primer until the black guide coat is completely gone. Now you know you have a flat surface with no dents or waves.

One of the trickiest areas to sand on a Porsche 911 body is the middle area of the hood between the two lower edges as seen in this picture. If you sand correctly, you will use you block and sand towards the inner edges and not with the edge. Sanding with the edge will cause a deep sanding edge from your block that will be seeing after painting. I like using a red scuffing pad in all areas where the block will not work, for example the edges.

Your final sanding should look like this. Very smooth and no black guide coat left on the surface. From here we are ready to go to the booth and start the painting process. This is why we have worked so hard.

Before I begin to put down some sealer, I make absolute sure that my surface is free of any oils or dirt. For this reason a wipe the entire hood with PPG’s wax and grease remover. Be sure to wet the entire surface by wiping with a dust free rag. While the surface is still wet, wipe right behind with a second dry rag until surface is completely dry. I then wipe the entire surface with a tack cloth.


For my sealer I used a urethane based product that comes with a catalyst. I spray one wet coat and allow to dry for ½ hour.

I spray three/four coats of base coat color (light Ivory). I tack between coats making sure the surface stays free of debris. I let the base coat tack 5min. between coats.

The final three coats are urethane clear. Follow the MSDS sheet for direction on drying times.

After my clear coat has harden (1-3 days) I color sand the hood with 1000 grit wet to remove any orange peel or dirt. By buffing the finish coat, I get a show room mirror finish. I use a wool cutting pad on a high speed buffer. Be careful using this machine. You can buff right through your finished clear coat. I recommend living this job to a professional if you have any doubts.


Here is the final mirror finish 67 911 hood. A completely restored hood from metal to clear coat. Hope you have enjoyed the threads. Regards, Freddie
__________________
VINTAGE SPORTSCAR RESTORATIONS
www.vsrestorations.com
freddie@vsrestorations.com
Freddie Hernandez
(541) 535-3304
Old 08-04-2007, 08:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,816
Thanks for the excellent contribution.
__________________
Paul

1980 911SC Targa - Sold
1972 914 - Sold
Old 08-04-2007, 08:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jays72T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Quad Cities IA
Posts: 1,230
Garage
Awesome!!! Thanks for this.
__________________
Jay
'13 X3 3.5
'74 914
'72 T gone
Old 08-04-2007, 11:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
durn for'ner
 
livi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 16,434
It finally dawns on me why a new paint job is so ridiculously expensive. My ignorance led me to believe it was simply a matter of spraying on a layer of new color..
__________________
Markus
Resident Fluffer

Carrera '85
Old 08-05-2007, 01:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,378
Great job once again Freddie ! great article thanks.



Cheers,
__________________
87 Carrera Backdate
Old 08-05-2007, 01:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
12 years and 17k posts...
 
azasadny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Wyandotte, MI (Southeast Michigan)
Posts: 17,356
Garage
Excellent! Thank you!
__________________
Art Zasadny
1974 Porsche 911 Targa "Helga" (Sold, back home in Germany)
2010 MazdaSpeed3 (daily driver)
www.ford.com
Old 08-05-2007, 03:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 2,058
Thanks Freddie.

I hate to say it but I think MANY shops are nowhere near as thorough as the work you do, I really appreciate you sharing the RIGHT WAY to do body work.

A few questions-

1- Between base coats if its a metalic would you still tack cloth it between coats? Is there any chance to mess with the metalic that could leave mark after the clear coat?

2- (Going back to your older post on filler work) Why does evercoat recommend applying the filler to bear metal? Is it still better to seal the metal then apply filler?

3- I'm having a problem with a paint job I just did. I used Dupont ( catalyst high build primer) and PPG (global) base coat. On the edges of the door it chips off so easy. Whats UP? Its as if the base coat does not have a good hold on the primer.

Do you think there is a problem using 2 brand of products?

4- I used DUPONT self etching primer and the metal that it was applied to was SUPER clean and I have rust poping out where the door skin, deck lid skin wrap around to the frame. What the heck is going on?

Would really apreciate your opinion on this.

Thank you
Old 08-05-2007, 08:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
web geek
 
emptyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Diego California
Posts: 5,503
Garage
Send a message via AIM to emptyo Send a message via Yahoo to emptyo
Thanks Freddy!
__________________
Michael O'Neal -
69 RSR Clone(ish) - Read about the build: http://bit.ly/69porschersr
Rennch Youtube Channel: http://rennch.com/Youtube Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_rennch_/
Old 08-05-2007, 08:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fhernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 794
Herman,

Thanks for you generous comments.

1. Tacking between metallic base-coats is okay. However, if you tack too soon and the base-coat is still wet, you will smear the metallic. If you smear your metallic you must then wait longer for the drying time and then try to softly color sand with 1000 grit and spray 1-3 mist coats before clearing.

2. Applying bondo over metal has been the way to go for many years. If you decide to apply bondo over metal, make sure that you use only high quality bondo that will stop moisture from soaking through. If you choose to bondo over epoxy, there is no harm. With a good quality bondo it will still adhere to the epoxy. On my hood I decided to bondo over epoxy since I started with a rusty hood (see picture below).

3. My guess is that you may be building the edges with too much primer and base-coat. If it's chipping to the metal than your primer is much to thick and you need to feather sand into the edges. If you sand through apply small amounts of primer. You have to be careful with high-build primers. When they say "high build" they mean it. If you base-coat is chipping than you may need to use a sealer or, you are applying too many coat. Remember that base-coats are applied differently than single stage paints. I don't think that using two different brands of products is the cause.

4. You must make sure that before you apply this product the edges of the panels are completely dry and free of water or moisture. Water tends to hide behind these areas. I like using air to blow out any moisture left behind. Also, make sure you are applying "wet" coats in these areas.

I hope this helps.

__________________
VINTAGE SPORTSCAR RESTORATIONS
www.vsrestorations.com
freddie@vsrestorations.com
Freddie Hernandez
(541) 535-3304
Old 08-05-2007, 09:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mkimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Posts: 188
Garage
Freddie--I just want to join in to say thank you. Excellent work. Excellent info.
__________________
Michael

1987 3.2 Carmine Red Carrera
1995 Midnight Blue 993 C4
1957 Silver Speedster Outlaw (replica)
Old 08-05-2007, 05:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
9dreizig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reno NV, Bay Area during most weeks,, Kids still in NH
Posts: 5,784
Send a message via AIM to 9dreizig
Freddie, could you post a link to all of your threads?? Looks like great stuff!
__________________
"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 08-05-2007, 05:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fhernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 794
Do a search on fhernand and you should have them.
__________________
VINTAGE SPORTSCAR RESTORATIONS
www.vsrestorations.com
freddie@vsrestorations.com
Freddie Hernandez
(541) 535-3304
Old 08-05-2007, 08:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
alpina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 44
Garage
great thread

Chuck
__________________
04" Mini Cooper
66" sprite (scca "DP")
73" 914 2.2 (sold)
72" 914 1.7 (sold)
79" Alpina B6 (sold)
Old 08-06-2007, 01:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fhernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 794
Thanks guys. Hope this will come in handy.
__________________
VINTAGE SPORTSCAR RESTORATIONS
www.vsrestorations.com
freddie@vsrestorations.com
Freddie Hernandez
(541) 535-3304
Old 08-07-2007, 11:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Warren Hall Student
 
Bobboloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles Ca.USA
Posts: 3,959
Garage
Hey Freddie,

Just wanted to thank you for all the great threads. They are very helpful. I especially like the Metal Conditioning thread.

Quick question. What are your thoughts on Por 15 rust encapsulator for some areas of the chassis like say the suspension pan or wheel wells? I know it doesn't stick to bare metal very well but if the metal is etched with something like PPG DX 520 metal conditioner it should bond well. I believe Por 15 is an epoxy based product by the way.

Also after applying Por 15 would spraying an epoxy primer like the PPG over it be alright?

edit: I just found out Por-15 sells a product called "tie-coat" to go over Por-15 before your primer.
__________________
Bobby

Warren Hall 1950 - 2008
_____"Early_S_Man"_____

Last edited by Bobboloo; 08-09-2007 at 02:34 PM..
Old 08-08-2007, 01:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhernand View Post
Thanks guys. Hope this will come in handy.
yup i decided that a pro should do this work i allways enjoy this kind of threads. Seeing you,Damon or Kevin at work is awesome, you guys make it look so easy.

How is the rest of the car doing btw ? would love to see the end result.


Cheers,
__________________
87 Carrera Backdate
Old 08-08-2007, 03:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kfosburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 148
Garage
Send a message via AIM to kfosburg Send a message via Yahoo to kfosburg
First of all, great threads... I have learned a lot and also realize why the estimates for repainting (just painting!) are so expensive.

I have a simple and probably stupid question that goes to the whole concept of color + clear coats.

It used to be that cars were painted with several coats of paint and color sanded to take out the orange peel and other irregularities. Then, as time went by and your paint faded, oxidized, scratched, etc... you would grab the can of rubbing compound, a bucket of water and a bunch or rags and rubbed it out. Then a couple of coats of real wax to polish and add luster and that was it.

Now, with clear coat what is actually happening? I see you "color" sanding out the clear coat which makes sense to get a mirror/polished finish but how does that do anything to the color under the coats of clear (like I said, probably a dumb question). Is it really "clear" sanding and you've already taken care to ensure that the base color is perfect?

What is the fundamental advantage to clear coating versus extra layers of paint? Is it a better "look" with extra depth/shine and/or is it more impervious to the elements negating the eventual need for that can of rubbing compound?

Thanks!

Karl (still looking for that paint shop in Frederick, MD that isn't adding % for the pcar factor!).
Old 08-14-2007, 07:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mitch Leland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, Texas
Posts: 1,819
Garage
Freddie, I think one service you have done for us beyond detailing the scope of work is to make us appreciate what a good paint job entails. It's a lot of work... Plus, with today's exotic materials you better know what you're doing or you're going to blow a lot of work and money.
__________________
Mitch Leland
"03" 996 C2S-LS3 V8-480 HP
"84" 911 Turbo Look-Sold w/ found memories
Old 08-14-2007, 09:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Warren Hall Student
 
Bobboloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles Ca.USA
Posts: 3,959
Garage
Karl,

I think you pretty much answered your own questions. Hopefully Freddie will respond but if not my understanding is yes, color sanding a two stage paint is actually clear coat sanding. I guess the term comes from the days of single stage paints.

I've noticed that two stage paints do have more depth than single stage. Especially when viewed from an angle. Whether it's a better look or not I guess is really an opinion.

Supposedly, two stage paints are easier to touch-up. I guess it depends on the size of the touch up. I always found stone chips easy to fix with single stage but two stage has it's advantages especially with it's ease of blending adjacent panels in case your color isn't an exact match as is often the case when the paint your trying to match has faded a little.

The newer formulas are improved but they are certainly not impervious to the elements. They still need to be re-freshened when left exposed to the elements over time.
__________________
Bobby

Warren Hall 1950 - 2008
_____"Early_S_Man"_____
Old 08-14-2007, 09:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Pete000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,206
1.What primer do you use ? I used something called 901 requiring hardner. Is there something a bit thinner for my second coat?

2.What is: "For my sealer I used a urethane based product that comes with a catalyst. I spray one wet coat and allow to dry for ½ hour. "

3.Why do the body shops and custom builders "Skin" the entire panel with Evercoat? The factory doesnt build the cars that way? Just wondering.

Fun to read this thread as I am doing the same thing right along with you...Thanks !
__________________
Work to Live, don't live to work...

Last edited by Pete000; 08-14-2007 at 10:02 PM..
Old 08-14-2007, 09:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:54 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.