Looking for help re: my chains and more

[foamy911]

if your pulling the chain box, you may as well replace what ever you pull off. The parts are not that expensive and if you have it off anyhow...................................

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Unless you use new chain sprockets on the I-shaft, don't feed a new chain on old sprockets, go here:

New chains without new sprockets? Read this!

New chain sprockets on the I-shaft are much more important than new cam sprockets and idler sprockets with a new chain.

I am taking my chances and leaving them alone. The cam boxes still need to come off in order to address some oil leaks.

Dave

[safe]

Your chains looks perfectly fine, bolt it up and drive it.

[slodave]

Thank you to everybody that says I should keep the old chains. But I must stress this point: I DO NOT have the money to replace every part, just because I am in there. I honestly cannot even really afford to to buy the gaskets and rubber o-rings I need, but if I do not fix the oil leaks, my other option is to put my car on blocks, cancel insurance and not re-register the car in two months. The oil leaks are coming from BEHIND the cam boxes. The only way I can fix them, is by taking the cam boxes out and replace the gaskets.

That said, I am picking Wayne's 911 engine rebuild book on Thursday, so that I can read about timing, chains, tensioners, etc. If anyone has advice on how to accomplish my tasks, or can point out any good threads, it would be much appreciated.

When I have the financial means (money) to rebuild my engine, I will replace everything that that is worn out or beyond tolerances. I hope this makes sense. I enjoy driving my car and do not want to put it away and not be able to drive it. The rest of the engine is in great shape, despite having 227,000 miles.

Thank you so much for taking the time and responding to the initial post

Dave

[Superman]

I had substantial leaking behind the chain housings. I think I've finally got it fixed now, but it took a couple of tries. As it turns out, that area is hard to seal. It is probably the gasket, rather than the rubber o-ring. Coat the rubber o-ring with silicon grease like Dow Corning 111 or 112. I used copper gasket dressing on the semi-triangular thrust plate gasket, but JW has stopped using that because it can cause the gasket to squeeze out under the pressure. I used the dressing and did not tighten the bolts greatly. I used blue loctite to try to ensure they don't back out. There is nowhere they can go anyway.

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by slodave

Thank you to everybody that says I should keep the old chains. But I must stress this point: I DO NOT have the money to replace every part, just because I am in there. I honestly cannot even really afford to to buy the gaskets and rubber o-rings I need, but if I do not fix the oil leaks, my other option is to put my car on blocks, cancel insurance and not re-register the car in two months. The oil leaks are coming from BEHIND the cam boxes. The only way I can fix them, is by taking the cam boxes out and replace the gaskets.

That said, I am picking Wayne's 911 engine rebuild book on Thursday, so that I can read about timing, chains, tensioners, etc. If anyone has advice on how to accomplish my tasks, or can point out any good threads, it would be much appreciated.

When I have the financial means (money) to rebuild my engine, I will replace everything that that is worn out or beyond tolerances. I hope this makes sense. I enjoy driving my car and do not want to put it away and not be able to drive it. The rest of the engine is in great shape, despite having 227,000 miles.

Thank you so much for taking the time and responding to the initial post

Dave

Dave,
If you need to save a few bucks you can borrow my Wayne's book. It will help offset the gasket kit cost. Let me know and I can drop it off or if the group is meeting this week I can bring it with me.

By the way those chains do not look bad for the miles on your motor. I have seen some that look like throwing stars with 2/3 the miles you have.

[kepperly]

Goes to show guys oil IS CHEAP!!! AND GET SOME GM EOS IN IT.
KEITH EPPERLY
87 SLANT NOSE TURBO LOOK CARRERA CABRIOLET

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Dave,
If you need to save a few bucks you can borrow my Wayne's book. It will help offset the gasket kit cost. Let me know and I can drop it off or if the group is meeting this week I can bring it with me.

By the way those chains do not look bad for the miles on your motor. I have seen some that look like throwing stars with 2/3 the miles you have.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the offer, but I actually bought that today and will pick it up on Thursday. Books are one thing I don't mind buying. I will read the thing over and over and then use it when I tear the engine down in later, you now, 300,000 miles - that was my goal at one time.

I could use a cam bar that fits my 84. That's one thing I'd rather not spend $$ on and use it 4 times, then put it away.

Fortunately, I had bought some of the gaskets for the easier leaks a while ago. I don't think this will get too out of hand. I was not looking forward in spending $400.00+ for chains and sprockets.

Dave

[slodave]

Another side project while the engine is out, is to replace the intake gaskets. I bought those a few months ago, when I found that a lot of the barrel nuts were loose. Nows the time to see how many (I hope none) have been sucked in. I'll remove that tomorrow and see if the bake-a-lite insulators are serviceable.

Dave

Hey Keith, if you are suggesting that this 911 has had regular oil changes, you'd be right. Dad was on the ball while he owned the car and I have been changing it too frequently, but with good reasons . I have easy access to the Shell Rotella T and at $38.00 a case, I'd say it's very inexpensive.

[Mr9146]

Dave, call me. You've got my number.

Don't worry ... you'll get through this.

[Ned, NYNA11]

All,

There is no particular risk in running the engine with the chain covers off. It will leak a little from the right side but thats no big deal.

The noise of a loose chain is quite unforgettable, like a chain being rattled around in a metal garbage can, and you would probably see the chain hitting with the covers off.

The real advantage is when you have someone blip the throttle to unload the driving side of the chains. This should show the tensioner taking up the resulting slack.

The unmuffled engine noise is a little threathening so you could bolt up the muffler for the tensioner show. Use earmuffs if you run it unmuffled as the noise will be down there.

Ned

[slodave]

Tonight, a few friends stopped by and the cam boxes are off. Tomorrow, I send in a big list of parts to PP and while waiting, start cleaning and truing up critical mating surfaces. A big thank you to Chris (porcupine911), Marco and Marc (mkaraoglan)! Everything came apart with ease. With some expert eyes, it's been determined that chains, sprockets etc... are just fine and will last a few more years (knock on wood).

I found a Euro pre-muffler and hope to be installing that as well.

Here's the engine as it stands tonight.


Nothing like coming home and smelling like jet fuel, oil, gas and beer!

Dave

Ned: Working at an airport gives me access to all sorts of un-muffled engines and jets. Personally, it does not excite me to run my 911 engine without a muffler

[ischmitz]

Way to go. Let me know if you need help when putting it back together. I will be back from Japan on Friday August 31st around lunch time.....

[slodave]

Originally Posted by ischmitz

Way to go. Let me know if you need help when putting it back together. I will be back from Japan on Friday August 31st around lunch time.....

Thanks Ingo! We'll see how things go.

For those that are interested:
Here's how the engine looked before removing the cam boxes and covers.


Fun stuff!

[450knotOffice]

I found a Euro pre-muffler and hope to be installing that as well.

Dave, when you and I talked on the phone and I mentioned the improvement I got by replacing the Cat with a Euro bypass (not to mention the better sound), I didn't think you were going to look for one. I'm glad you did. You'll definitely notice an improvement in both power and sound quality. Good job.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Dave, when you and I talked on the phone and I mentioned the improvement I got by replacing the Cat with a Euro bypass (not to mention the better sound), I didn't think you were going to look for one. I'm glad you did. You'll definitely notice an improvement in both power and sound quality. Good job.

Heh, heh, what the hay, it's only money and I'm only in debt, not ready to file bankruptcy - yet. I searched the "For sale" forum, but things were very dry. Posted a "WTB" and found someone I actually have talked with before and he has one he is willing to part with.

I have a nice IT project coming up and it will last a few months, so, I will have some money coming in and well, Porsche's are very addictive!

Dave

[lfot]

Originally Posted by slodave

I found a Euro pre-muffler and hope to be installing that as well.

I just did that. Bursch bypass with an M&K.

Do it!

[Superman]

If you can find someone with a CAT that has failed, you can easily break up the innards with a broom handle, and they make a nice-sounding baffle chamber, except there would be no baffling. Same as a test pipe, only with a deep resonance. Pretty cool, actually.

Were your cam housings leaking at the connection to the case? That'd be unusual. My problem was leaking down the back of the housings, between the housings and the heads. Serious leak. Again, that problem is probably the semi-triangular gasket thingie. Be very detail-oriented when you install those gaskets.

And finally, I work at an airport too. Love the smell of kerosene in the mornings, and the sound of jet engines. Those darned MD-80's are the loudest things that fly out of here, by far. And I am continually marvelling at 747's. What made us think that a large building could fly?

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Superman

If you can find someone with a CAT that has failed, you can easily break up the innards with a broom handle, and they make a nice-sounding baffle chamber, except there would be no baffling. Same as a test pipe, only with a deep resonance. Pretty cool, actually.

Were your cam housings leaking at the connection to the case? That'd be unusual. My problem was leaking down the back of the housings, between the housings and the heads. Serious leak. Again, that problem is probably the semi-triangular gasket thingie. Be very detail-oriented when you install those gaskets.

And finally, I work at an airport too. Love the smell of kerosene in the mornings, and the sound of jet engines. Those darned MD-80's are the loudest things that fly out of here, by far. And I am continually marvelling at 747's. What made us think that a large building could fly?

I know about the cat trick, but wanted to go with a more proven Porsche route .

The cam boxes were most likely leaking (severely) from the back, but with 23+ years of crud, who knows where some of the other leaks are from. I did not do a dye/blacklight test.

I actually do not work at an airport, I just have access to my dads hanger certain times of the year. The hanger is located at the North/West end of KVNY.


Tomorrow I go and clean dirty parts!

[slodave]

Cam boxes and covers are clean, as are the valve covers.



I will scrape the rest of the brown stuff visible on the backside of each cam box and apply some JB weld, per Wayne's engine rebuild book.

Tomorrow I will make sure all surfaces are flat and I still need to take a razor blade and make sure all of the old gaskets and sealer is removed from the cam boxes. I will also gently compress the tensioners in a vise and insert the grenade pin that'll keep them compressed until they are reinstalled. I'll make the pins from a coat hanger that is extra thick.