Yet another newbie with purchasing advice request
 

Good morning, I've been lurking here for a while, been soaking up info in a number of places trying to satisfy the same dream that I've seen over and over on here about owning that icon from my youth (an 80's 911).

I have read over and over the valuable advice given about purchasing one of these cars, buying the best example you can afford, the advice that one way or the other you will dump similar money into one to get it where you want it.

I've stumbled across what seems to be a somewhat rough example of an '85 Targa (which happens to be precisely what I'd like to have) no rust, supposedly runs well, interior needs help but isn't horrible, needs a paint job, tires, help in general. I have yet to drive the car and give it a really thorough going over but assuming it's an "ok" runner and solid, everything is there and functioning as the seller indicates, is it worth taking the chance?

There are a large number of cars that are unquestionably nicer for $10-13k but is a project car worth taking on by a reasonable back-yard mechanic with a couple of VW restorations under his belt if the starting price was half that?

Lastly, Edmunds.com (which I have found to be very good with newer cars) gives a price of $3300 for a car like I've described (actually being generous with condition) This seems low for what I've watched sell around here and elsewhere for the last several months, or is it?

edit: when it comes down to it I plan to do body work, interior, even a future engine rebuild myself if that makes a difference.

Your advice and input is appreciated.

Ok, Edmunds can't be right, I just put in information exemplary of 911's that I've seen sell for that $10k+ and it seems to think they are only worth $4500, I thought that might have been the case.

'no rust' and 'runs well' aren't in keeping with the reported poor condition of the cosmetics.

make sure you can see it through before purchasing as half completed restorations do not pay back the 'restorer' very well.

A paint job is going to cost you $5-$8K, interior at least $1000 if you have to replace the seats. A decent Carrera as you point out can be had for less than $15K. So the car you are looking at is only worth what $7K? berretafan is right, bad cosmetics and "runs well" doesn't add up.

Heh Heh, maybe "well" shouldn't have been included in there. Like I said, I haven't had the chance to really check it out. There's not a lot of P-car inventory in my area of the country. The seller says it "runs & drives", I've asked him for a compression test.

At the moment, until I decide to drive the 3 hours to go see it for myself I'm going to assume that he's being fully up-front about the lack of rust and accident damage, she's not pretty but from the pictures she's straight and not "trashed".

......I guess more of my question to everyone is that I've seen over and over the warnings of not buying a less than perfect car, but where do they all go, surely not every aging 911 that wasn't pampered it's whole life is destined to be a parts car. And if not where do they all go and what are they realistically worth.

Obviously you see where my question is coming from so I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I can feasibly justify the $10k car if I'm willing to wait say another 6 months, but if I'm able to do most of the expensive work myself do you all still feel it's a loosing proposition?

Thanks again

If your $10K car needs new paint which conservatively will cost you $5K if you can't do it yourself and needs a new interior ($1000 an up) and an engine rebuild ($5000 if you do it yourself) you now have a $21K 1985 Targa. See where I am going with this?

Yes, but if my $5k car needs new paint (and I do it myself) and a new interior (lets say I don't do most of it myself) and next year or the year after needs a rebuild (and I do that myself)?

I rebuilt a near basket case Karmann Ghia quite a few years ago, the process of all that work kept me from murdering a (thankfully) EX-wife, I ended up selling it for less than I had in it but I loved every minute of restoring that car and don't regret it. This question is not a business proposition but a feasibility study :cool:

....What is a car like I describe worth initially?

You would be money ahead to buy your 911 already fixed. That is to say, that although you could have a lot of fun and enjoyment in the process, it will cost you more. I have been through it and so has many others on this board. Before it is all said and done, it will cost you at least 20k to do it right. You will see many guys do a project, spend 30k and end up with a 20k car. Pay your money and take your chances, but be warned that it is better financially to buy one already done. If you want to talk about this, I will be glad to share a little time with you on the phone if this and the other post are not clear. Good luck with whatever you decide.....G

If you want a number, here's my WAG.
Assume that everything needs rebuilding. You then have a rolling chasis with interior and all related brake parts etc. That should be worth about $3 to $4k. Engine and tranny, again complete but unknown condition, add another $4 to $5K. (A decent 3.2 engine alone should be worth about $5 to $6k but one with a couple hundred thou on it with no records should be considered a core motor needing rebuilding. A freshened 915 trans is worth about $1 to $1.5 K)

Thank you all for your input, your advice is not unexpected, although I continue to be completely confused as to what I should do.

[edited for being incomprehensible rambling from a confused person......]

Thanks for continuing to help, Travis

Your latest question is a bit general, but you can account for 10k difference in a particular same year comparison by deferred maintainence alone. For example a 10k car might have a run-out, high miles engine, have been hit (body damage), and have a crummy paint job. The engine turn-around for a 3.0 or 3.2 could be 8-10k by itself. Other maintanence items, run into a substantial amount of money. These replacement parts are expensive. An ignition switch for my 72 new is over 400 bucks plus installation. If you have restored VWs you know the drill. Personally, I would look on the pelican cars for sale forum and find one that someone has been working on for a year or two and buy it. There are some very nice cars to be found there that are real values, rather than some questionable one from ebay.

I think there are lots of nice driveable 911's in the $10K-$15K range. The one you are looking at is not one of them.

The car I'm looking at has an asking price of $5500. I wouldn't touch the one I've been describing for $10k either, I was meaning I felt I had found plenty of cars that seemed like what I'd ultimately like to have for that $10k (understanding that ANY one of these old girls is going to need any number of items replaced).

Here is an ad for a car right here on Pelican for $7,800. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/362332-86-targa-builder-parts-car-7800-boise.html

Is this one linked above in any way a reasonable price for such a car?

$5500 for the car you are looking at seems reasonable. If you like working on cars and have the patience to do so then it may not be a bad buy. At that price what you basically want is a straight frame with no body damage and no rust. But keep in mind, in the end, you will still have to probably put in another $10K -$15K to make it right. Since I have had my '86 I have rebuilt the engine and suspension. But, I enjoy doing those things.

I probably should have been less vague to begin with. I fully expect to have to spend a considerable amount of money & time restoring this or whatever car, but I hope to have a mostly running "toy" to play with along the way.

We have 2 other cars, I just have a need for something to tinker on. I don't really want to outlay too much more $$ than I have to initially for this (since it's purely a toy) but have and don't mind spending money on it over time. My other musings are a decent 951 (in this same $5-6k range) or another Karmann Ghia. The 911 is what I've wanted for the better part of 25 years but I do realize the potential costs involved and don't want to make a decision I'll regret.