semi-beating speeding tickets in New York

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

This is something I'm curious about, because I may want to write about it:

Throughout New York State, the smaller local justice courts, in my Porsche-speeding experience (three summonses in the last four years), will let you off a speeding ticket if you plead "not guilty" by mail, get assigned a court date and do physically show up at the court. You still get a ticket, granted, but it's for something minor like "failure to obey a traffic device" (my last one) or "inoperative tail light" (one before that).

You go to court and there are the five or six state and local cops who each have a dozen "clients" in court that day, one of them calls your name, and he politely gives you the reduced charge in exchange for your agreeing to simply pay the $100 plus $50 court costs. (They even had an ATM in the last court I went to.)

Why do they do this? The way it was explained to me is that they can cycle through 75 or so drivers in little more than an hour, and that's an easy $11,000 and everybody gets to go home early, back to work, watch the ballgame, whatever. The old system, where people actually argued their innocence or "fought the ticket," they'd sometimes have to waste half an hour or more of argument and case presentation to get a $250 fine.

Granted there may be courts that are exceptions, and this is done only for routine speeding tickets, not DUIs or reckless driving or other craziness.

My question: Has anybody had similar experiences in other states?

[Ken911]

yes florida does that. if you plead not guilty at the hearing then they have to set a court date for a trial and you have to come back again.

[Danny_Ocean]

In FLA, assuming you do not have a serious/extensive driving record, you can pay a "traffic clinic" $69 (+/-) to represent you (solicitations arrive in the mail, in volume, within days of receiving your citation). They guarantee dismissal. I've only had to use them once and the ticket disappeared. Not sure how they do it, but it works. (I have a vision these operators show up in court with a stack of tickets a mile high at which point the judge rolls his eyes and has the clerk stamp them "dismissed" for a $15 administrative fee, e.g. $69 - $15 = $54 x 100 tix = $5400 for 1 day's work).

[4flyboy]

It just goes to show that they are full of beans when they argue "safety" issues in ticket writing and camera enforcement. It is almost always about revenue. I've read that red light cameras almost always increase the incidents of serious accidents. Cell phone use in the car has almost identical numbers to drunk driving accidents with and without hands free operation. It's invariably about money. Sorry to rant but at least we get away from points on our insurance records with this system! Hope this spreads like red light cameras!

Scott

[p911dad]

Steve, another wrinkle in NY justice courts is to have your attorney send a letter to the DA offering to plead your speeding ticket down to a lower charge, like disobeying a traffic device. If the DA agrees heor she reduces the charge and the court clerk(Justice's clerk) writes back with the disposition(fine for the lower charge you pleaded to, along with the NY State surcharge($75.+). This way, you don't even have to go to court, much easier. It is still going to be an expensive little deal, as the attorney adds his fee($145. here), so it is over $300. total anyway. The court still gets the $, but doesn't have to see you! Kind of like the Florida Traffic Clinic deal, only more expensive.

[RWebb]

Yes, it is easy money.

NYT has had some articles on miscarriages of justice in these small "justice" courts - maybe 2- 3 months ago.

[Buckterrier]

Steve, I got a ticket on the NY thruway early this summer. I pleaded not guity for 2 reasons. One it was in a work zone, fines doubled. Two, the officer when asked how much the fine was, said "It's up to the judge". Didn't think that was quite fair + whatever his whim it's doubled.
To me it was wierd anyway. I had the cruise set at 73mph in 65 zone, (I know, I know speeding already!). I saw the "road construction 1 mile ahead" sign so I tapped the break to slow down. Boom, there's the cop. Pulls me over and says 70 in a 55. Hell I didn't even know I was in the "construction zone yet!! 1/10th of a mile after the sign is the "work zone" apparently.
So... I am going to court just to 'explain' the circumstances and see if I can get a lower fine. I drive about 35,000 - 40,000 miles a year for my job and they don't take to kindly getting tickets driving the Co. car.
I'm supposed to go to court the 21st of this month. I can't go, (need to call this morning), as I'm out of town all week.
Will let you know how I make out.

[RoninLB]

Same what Steve says around here. If you use a local to court lawyer you can get a speeder dropped to a seat belt ticket no matter where you are. Local politics and connections always wins. Right and wrong is only in question among equals in power.



the American Motorist Ass said in one of their books to call the day before and see if the cop canceled being in court. If he'll be there then you postpone. Call again the day before court date etc etc. You can do this three times in many places. Or it may be showing up for the not guilty date to face the cop, don't remember.

When the cop will not be there you show up and plead not guilty and the judge has to toss it.
Not sure if all that still stands?

old info is that 2 speeders out of state, like a Conn resident getting NY tickets, will get you a letter in the mail dis-allowing you to drive in that state.

[joefrantz]

Denver allows you to plead guilty to a lesser offense and mail it in. There are several minor violations listed on the back of the ticket. You just check your favorite, sign the ticket, write the check (for the original fine of course) and drop it in the mail.

Joe

[Mysterytrain]

I got a speeding ticket in NY state about 5 years ago. I asked the cop what the deal was because I was from New Jersey. I was told to call the number on the ticket and to pay the fine ASAP. Doing so would prevent NY from contacting NJ, thus NO POINTS. I did as I was told and sure enough my record remained clean.

[Quicksilver]

I really don't mind (much) paying the fine on a speeding ticket because I feel it is like paying for a license that allows me to drive the speed I want. The points on the license is the pissy bit. The automated enforcement bit should be pounded out of the government though. I can see automating felonies but infractions? The priorities seem to be a bit off. Besides it skews the number of points collected for a given type of driving variation.

The CHP used to have a list of the top 20 root causes of accidents. Speeding was on the list... It was a bit after driving slowly. Driving slow was number 4 on the list with a double digit percentage. Driving fast was way down at the bottom (#16 or #17?) at a minuscule fraction of a percent.

The fact is that speeding is fun to enforce and cops like excitement at least as much as most people, it is easy to enforce, and the vastly predominant public misconception is that speed is hugely dangerous. It keeps the $$ rolling in, it makes the public officials look like they are protecting registered voters, and it keeps that vast majority of brain dead, cell phone talking, coffee drinking, stereo adjusting, makeup applying, digging in the back seat, "I'm doing anything except driving" populace from being surprised and scared by the cars that are actually going somewhere.

[Stutzdriver]

I had an experience in NY last spring while traveling home form Toronto through Buffalo. Seems there is a speed camera on the small stretch of the Thruway that reduces to 55 from 65. I was cited (by photo radar) at 64 in a 55. as I was in a rental car and the rental car co has an agreement to supply my information (AND I give my permission to not only provide the info but to also automatically pay based on the rental car company information), I got hit for $140.00 (inclusive of court costs) but no points. I could argue and plead Not Guilty but if the judge convicts the fine is the same and I would ge the 2 points on my OHIO DL.

Consulted my attorney and he advised to leave it alone and forget about it, not really fair but seems like good advise in the long run as my insurance wasn't affected.

[azasadny]

I had a speeding ticket reduced to "impeding traffic" almost 2 years ago because I showed up in court to fight the ticket. I paid a small fine and nothing went on my record. Just another "income generation" device for municipalities, I guess.

[chuckr]

In Louisiana, you get a speeding ticket. The ticket has a court date on it. Show up at the court
house the day before your assigned court date and ask for a continuance (another date)
The arresting officer will be in court the day of the original ticket. The officer has no way of
knowing the new date you got the day before when you asked for the continuance. You show
up at your new court date... the officer is NOT there ! you get off scott free, no ticket, no fine
nothing on your record !!!
This little secret has worked twice for me. You do have to show up the second time for court,
and if the Assistant DA remembers you...which happened to me ! things get a bit touchy, meaning they call your name last hoping the officer shows up, if not... you go free !
All in all, a couple of hours in court was worth it for me.

[berettafan]

the comments of '$xxxx for a days work' are not entirely accurate. lets not forget the cop used municipal property (car, gas, tire wear, etc) to pull you over, spent xx minutes giving you the stink eye AND risked his life to do so (crazy how those guys stand on the driver side of the car!).

[azasadny]

It's also important to dress appropriately when you go to court. On the day I went, the judge made a comment that I was the only one there that day who dressed appropriately. everyone else had their best wife-beaters, mullets, tattoos and sandals. Most of the people looked like they were going to the beach instead of court.

[RWebb]

"everyone else had their best wife-beaters, mullets, tattoos and sandals."

- What did the non-lawyers wear?

[RickM]

In NJ you can have your moving violation dropped to a no points "unsafe driving" ticket. I believe you can do this twice by speaking to the prosecutor right before court. Problem is the ticket ends up costing $400+.....most of which goes to the state. Corrupt ba$tards.

[jester911]

Interesting subject. Here in the Atl. metro area there has been 3 different communities that have become incorporated to separate themselves from the county they are in. One of the new "cities" has been on a tear giving tickets. They are clearly just trying to fill their coffers to offset the cost they have burdened themselves with.

They have a whole fleet of new police cars and officers as well as having to pay for all the other things they are now responsible for providing. Public safety is clearly not the objective here.

[Blue3.2]

To stir the pot a little, I agree that most traffic enforcement is aimed at income generation, but think it's interesting that we're complaining about being able to get out of speeding tickets---which most haven't contested the underlying validity of (e.g. being unjustly tagged for speeding or cited for too high a speed)---at a discounted price, whether in terms of points or dollars. Perhaps the fines are too high and/or the speed limits too low, but if we aren't contesting those things, why complain about getting a discount?

Red light cameras are a different ball game, though. By reducing the time of the yellow light, these things are causing more accidents than they prevent.