permanant tire sealant I came across

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

First of all, I'm NOT talking about Slime or Fix-a-Flat. That stuff is destructive and should only be used in a real emergency. It's corrosive to alloy wheels and often makes repair of the damaged tire impossible, since you can't get it off the inside of the tire. It's also inflammable and will eventually corrode the steel belting inside the tire, when it slowly penetrates the hole through the tread made by the original puncture.

The stuff I'm talking about is called Ride-On, and it has been used for years by heavy-equipment and municipal (and other) fleet operators, who buy it by the barrel. Motorcyclists also swear by it (remember, they don't have spares). They're now starting to make it more easily available in tire-by-tire retail quantities through their website (www.rideon.com).

The reason I was particularly interested is that my 911 has a fuel cell--no room for a spare. So I'd been carrying Fix-a-Flat and a puncture-repair kit and hoping I never needed them.

So I deflated all four of my tires, removed the valve cores and squeezed Ride-On into the each tire. (It's a thick orange goop, not particularly sticky, odorless and water-soluble.) Then you re-inflate the tires and go out and drive until the stuff spreads evenly. That took about 20 minutes. For the first five minutes, I couldn't get over 40 without steering-wheel shake, but after 20 minutes, I was able to to an easy 120 without the slightest vibration. I've left the car sitting for as long as five days and the stuff doesn't seem to redistribute itself--maybe the tiniest vibration for the first minute, then nothing. They do say that you need to redistribute it by driving if you let the car sit for "a long time," which I think means weeks or months.

It stays in the tire for the life of the tire, of course, and as far as I can tell has no ill effects. Haven't had a puncture, so I can't tell you how well it actually works, but certainly they have many thousands of users who use the stuff successfully on vehicles used in puncture-heavy locations such as construction sites.

Go to rideon.com and read all about it. (It's said to have other advantages as well, such as permanently balancing and re-balancing the tire.) Costs about $15 a tire. I expect many upcoming posters will tell me they'd _never_ put anything into their precious Porsche tires, but makes no never-mind to me: I'm happy with it, I worry far less about not having a spare...and in fact the stuff indeed has been used in racecars, particularly for the Baja 500 and 1000.

I have nothing to do with the company. They contacted me after I wrote an article on how dumb run-flat tires are.

[cnavarro]

http://www.ride-on.com/ is the correct link :-)

Looks like it's not a bad idea for those without spares. My question is what does it do to a TPMS in a new car. I just had to buy a new set of TPMS for my Touareg and I'd hate to have to replace them again!

[Por_sha911]

Didn't someone start a thread about this stuff a few months ago?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

(It's said to have other advantages as well, such as permanently balancing and re-balancing the tire.) .

Which is actually a viable proposition. I knew a fellow that got a patent for a ring of a few ball bearings that clipped onto a rim, which in turn, rebalanced the tire perpetually. The only drawback was that the "balancing" could not take place in an infinite plane such as today's dynamic balancing (well, this was in the 60's).

[kplackmeyer]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Didn't someone start a thread about this stuff a few months ago?

Yes...formerly steve started that one as well..

Ride-On Tire Protection Sealant any good?

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

Haven't had a puncture, so I can't tell you how well it actually works,

How would you know if you had a puncture?

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by kplackmeyer

Yes...formerly steve started that one as well..

Ride-On Tire Protection Sealant any good?

Strange...........

[Jim Garfield]

Do you still have to balance the tire when you use this stuff?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Jim Garfield

Do you still have to balance the tire when you use this stuff?

I would think a balance job would be in order. The material in the tire would naturally redistribute its self and "correct" any imbalance that might occur. I doubt that this would happen immediately, though, so you'd be rather bumpy until you reached and sustained a speed whereby forces would allow the material to move into place.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

The previous thread, which I indeed did start, was an attempt to find out if anybody knew anything about Ride-On. I hadn't yet tried it, hadn't yet bought it, and was simply trying to see if anybody would post, "I tried it and the stuff sucks, permanantly imbalances your wheels, etc. etc." In which case I would know better than to pursue it myself.

Nobody posted anything negative, just a few uninformed guesses that "it was probably no good." Queried my friend Steve Weiner on my own, he said, "Try it," so I did.

What's so strange about that, Jeff?

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Oh, and Dantilla, what I meant by "having a puncture" is that if I got a puncture and _did_ know about it, obviously it would mean Ride-On doesn't work.

[3.2 CAB]

You could also tell if you had gotten a puncture without the tire going flat. I have seen objects still embedded in the tire, looked like a small shiney spot while the tire was still inflated, or especially if the board is still attached to the tire, like I had happen one time on one of my trucks. I still had a small piece of plywood stuck to the tire. It sounds like this product could be quite useful. keep us posted if you happen to notice any adverse changes. Good luck.

[Jeff Alton]

I just thought you would have continued the original thread, no biggie.

Cheers

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Sounded to me like maybe you were suggesting I was trying to promote the company due to some self-interest, that's all...

[mkossler]

My biggest concern would be tire temperature and wear. Increasing the mass of the tire where the radial plies deform while in motion will result in an increase in temperature at speed, and a corresponding increase in the wear rate.

The wear issue may not be a significant factor for dedicated track use. The temperature issue is one I would take very seriously, however, since temperature is a direct contributor to tire failure. I would suggest contriving some baseline temperature comparison test, especially before taking treated tires to the track.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

The previous thread, which I indeed did start, was an attempt to find out if anybody knew anything about Ride-On. I hadn't yet tried it, hadn't yet bought it, and was simply trying to see if anybody would post, "I tried it and the stuff sucks, permanently imbalances your wheels, etc. etc." In which case I would know better than to pursue it myself.
Nobody posted anything negative, just a few uninformed guesses that "it was probably no good." Queried my friend Steve Weiner on my own, he said, "Try it," so I did.

In your old thread from July you said you were going to be trying the stuff "within the next few days" to write about it. It seems that you like the stuff now that you've tried it.

After my "uninformed guess" (which was written without any pretense of implied expertise) you were rather defensive when I questioned the product so I let it drop. The reason I said they lost points with me was because their FAQ is a little alarmist and slams the competitor. I sell in a highly competitive market and I refuse to slam the competition. I will point out my pluses and let the customer figure out that the other guy doesn't do what I can. Also, most aerosol fixes no longer contain flammable products so that is old news. Lastly, if the flammable stuff is sooo dangerous, why haven't the safety Nazis been all over it and why haven't we heard of an explosion from the stuff.... Also, my concern with the heat issue seems to be blown off. Is there no merit to this? I am open to instruction.

Having said all that, it does seem like a product worth considering since even a spare tire can be an issue if you in the boondocks and/or need to replace a tire in a time or place when suitable performance tires aren't immediately available.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Sorry I ever brought it up.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by mkossler

My biggest concern would be tire temperature and wear. Increasing the mass of the tire where the radial plies deform while in motion will result in an increase in temperature at speed, and a corresponding increase in the wear rate.

The wear issue may not be a significant factor for dedicated track use. The temperature issue is one I would take very seriously, however, since temperature is a direct contributor to tire failure. I would suggest contriving some baseline temperature comparison test, especially before taking treated tires to the track.

Now, I wonder first of all, what the increased mass really is. And since this is a substance of a different nature, i.e., not as stiff as a tire tread section, what documentation do you have for your postulation?

Now, if you tell me that the heat is transfered into the air in the tire, and that the extra thickness inhibits that transfer, I'll agree, but ask where that heat, in turn, goes. I've always wanted to understand that. Maybe thru the sidewall? If that's the case, then this material provides insulation. Afterall, sidewall failure can be a disaster compared to tread failure. Not that any are good.

[mkossler]

Originally Posted by milt

Now, I wonder ... what documentation do you have for your postulation?

Now, if you tell me that the heat is transfered into the air in the tire, and that the extra thickness inhibits that transfer, I'll agree, but ask where that heat, in turn, goes. I've always wanted to understand that. Maybe thru the sidewall? If that's the case, then this material provides insulation. Afterall, sidewall failure can be a disaster compared to tread failure. Not that any are good.

Great question.

I have in the past relied on the manufacturers' position on the use of additives, and the cumulative data gathered on tires such as Vogue which come with viscous additives already applied (I'll look for some if you are interested).

That data notwithstanding, the issue of heat dissipation is only one factor (and yes, it radiates through the tire walls and if the wheel is cooler than the air in the tire, can conduct some into the wheel although the wheel generally has all it can handle from the brakes). The added mass (the "how much" is pretty easy to figure out, weigh the tire before and after the application) is required to deform along with the tread, belt, fabric, and airtight plies. That deformation requires energy, and produces heat as its byproduct. You have, in effect, introduced a heat source that the tire, wheel, and brake manufacturer did not engineer or compensate for.

The tires are, as I am sure you are aware and appreciate, very highly engineered. The temperature and performance rating on the tire is only of cursory concern to the casual driver, but translate to significant differences for high-performance applications. Remember the dentist that ran his F40 in the Silver State Challenge on V-rated rubber, and managed to disintegrate them, his car, and himself in the process?

I can tell you that in my experience , application of material such as that suggested by Steve will void any warranty, and will result in the manufacturer not being willing to stand by the performance, treadwear, traction, and temperature ratings on the tire in question. Try emailing any of them with the question.

I don't want to sound like I'm a stick-up-the-butt curmudgeon - all of this is moot if we are discussing casual driving applications of the street. I can think of plenty of places where I'd gain peace of mind by using a treatment like this. The decrease in serviceable lifespan would likely be worth it.

On the track, not on your (okay, my) life. YMMV, my OPINION and Postulation

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

Sounded to me like maybe you were suggesting I was trying to promote the company due to some self-interest, that's all...

Nope, not at all, sorry if it came across that way.

Cheers