Anyone "downgraded" from a 993?

[Maxhouse97]

Hello - I new to this forum and need some advice. I live in Virginia Beach and am looking for my first 911. I had a 968 a couple of years ago, but I recently drove a Carrera 3.2 and a 993 (thanks to David and Parin) and I've got the 911 bug. I have been researching for the last two months (until my eyes bleed) and I am trying to decide between a G50 3.2 and a 993. I am wondering if anyone here has "downgraded" from a 993 to an older car. If you have, I would like to know your opinion of the two since you have a unique vantage point. Seems the overwhelming majority of people "upgrade" and go to the newer car. I plan on driving the car 2-3 times a week, and want a good DE/HPDE platform, but no more. I have to say I am leaning towards the 3.2, but here are my biggest concerns, both ways:

1. I want a car that is fun to drive slow - in other words a car I can enjoy at legal speeds. Some guys like to say "driving a slow car fast is better than driving a fast car fast." I have a 94 miata that I love to wring out on local streets, and had a E46 M3 that I didn't like as much because as soon as I got on it, I was going 80 (VA has $1k speeding tix now). I think the 3.2 will be better in this regard, but how about the 993? It is all relative I guess - guys on the 997 board like the 993 because it is more "raw"and funner to drive, and guys who have SC's say the 3.2 is too plush and isolating.

2. How bad is the a/c (in each car)? You know it gets damn hot down here, and I don't want to spend $25k + on something I am not going to drive April-Oct (hell its hot right now). I have heard the G50's have bigger vents, but that depending on the car the a/c sucks or is not that bad. I don't mind throwing some money at the problem, but not too much (on the 3.2). I hear some guys install 993 evaporators that seem to increase a/c performance. However, this does have the potential for "slippery slope" as replacing one component may not be the fix. This would be a reason to lean towards the 993.

3. I want something I can drive 3.5 hours to the track (thats how far VIR is - each way) and not arrive totally spent.

4. Seems like it takes $4-5k to get a 993 "well sorted" (i.e. Bilstiens or PSS9s, MO30 suspension, etc.) due to the stock suspension being so soft. The 3.2 not as much???

I like the classic lines of the 3.2, but the 993 is undeniably beautiful. I think I will like the "go-kart" handling in the 3.2 better (like my miata), but I think I will have a better shot of having my wife agreeing to take the 993 out for a weekend drive through the mountains. I like the DIY quality and cheaper parts of the 3.2, but the self adjusting valves of the 993. I love the sound of an M&K exhaust, but RSRs sound great as well. I could go on and on...

Sorry for the long message. Any help would be appreciated. Too bad I think 964s are not as good looking (no offense 964ers) - seems like the perfect mix. Thanks again.

Tony

BTW you may see this question again on Rennlist to get another opinion...

[livi]

Welcome!

Seems you have done a great deal of research already. Including test driving the contenders. Didnīt you get a heart feel for one or the other then ?

It is very much a matter of personal taste. They are all good in their own way and all around still pretty similar choosing between the 3.2 - 964 - 993 but each model have improvements (or the opposite if you like).

Funny you should mention the 964 in that context, I was just about to suggest it as the perfect mix too.

Of the two on your list I would probably start out with a nice 3.2. They are very sturdy and reliable little cars and the depreciation curve is almost flat. Here in Sweden it is appreciating rapidly the last couple of years. I would not hesitate a four hour ride in it, but maybe he wife would.

It is easy to work on and if you would like to trade up later on you have likely not lost much in the process.

[dad911]

Drive a 964. I used to think the same about the looks, now I have 2. (chin spoiler and 3.8 wing helps)

[Rot 911]

I have the money for a 993. I lust now and then for a 993. AC in the summer would be nice. But in the end I just stick with my '86. I think the reason is that a 993 is just too nice, too comfortable. I might think of it as more of a disposable car, like most other new cars.

Stock 993 AC works just fine through the Dallas summer.

I'll edit this because someone below said 993 AC works "with care and feeding". That's a stupid statement. The stock AC with proper 134a is a very good unit. There's no care and feeding necessary except keep it to factory specs.

[Max2.0]

Lets see...

Nice Driver condition 3.2, suitably set up for DE events... $20K

Nice Driver condition 993, (Bils PSS9's are the ticket!)... $40K

A/C can be "made" to work on a 3.2, but "will" work on a 993 (given reasonable care and feeding).

3.2 = Go Cart... 993 = Grand Touring...

Wife will prolly like the 993 better for the long hauls...

Yes, I too am surprised that one or the other did not "grab" you with the test drive... you must have tested a great 3.2 and a so so 993???

So, if you have $40K, go for it! If you only have $20K, go for it!

Both are a great Porsche experience, and will get you in lots of trouble with the local constabulary...

[Joe Bob]

It isn't a downgrade. Old cars rock....

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Max2.0

3.2 = Go Cart... 993 = Grand Touring...

I've owned both and I am sorry Max, but I cannot agree with this comment. I value your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. A well set up 993 is no more a "Grand Touring" car than a well set up 3.2. They are both great cars in their own way.

[kilodawg]

One mans opinion....but I own a 993 and an '84 3.2. To keep it short because you will read thru many replies on this I'm sure.

The car you describe as wanting is the Carrera.

The A/C can be worked around and it won't leave you spent after 3.5 hours of driving. I'm obviously a fan of 993's so don't consider this a 993 slam at all.

Good Luck!

[gerry100]

Driving 2-3 times/week and for track/DE , I believe the 3.2 is the ticket.

4 hr trip is about the limit for me in my '86.

Upgrading the shocks( to bilsteins) was $400 in parts, my labor and $200 plus for an alignment.

You can buy a lot of upgrade parts for the 3.2 that will allow you to keep going faster on the track without losing the Raw race car feel. ( that's why you'll see so many 3.2's still at the DEs)

AC sucks and always will, drive faster and keep the windows down.

[nut11]

Go for the 3.2 @ roughly $20K not hesitating to put some dough into the A/C if needed. The $20 K you save buy another for the wife.

87 blk coupe

[911boost]

It is too bad you don't like the 964, they are a great bargain, and have some of each the 3.2 and 993 in them. My 964 based turbo is a great car.

[Max2.0]

Originally Posted by Scooter

I've owned both and I am sorry Max, but I cannot agree with this comment. I value your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. A well set up 993 is no more a "Grand Touring" car than a well set up 3.2. They are both great cars in their own way.

I meant Grand Touring as in "GT"... fast and still comfortable over long distances... it was a compliment, not a negative!

My point of comparison was a "Go Cart"... quick, but not very comfortable over long distances...

Somehow, I think you "Left Coasters" just love to disagree for disagreement's sake!

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Max2.0

I meant Grand Touring as in "GT"... fast and still comfortable over long distances... it was a compliment, not a negative!

My point of comparison was a "Go Cart"... quick, but not very comfortable over long distances...

Somehow, I think you "Left Coasters" just love to disagree for disagreement's sake!

No Max, I merely respectfully disagreed with your comment. A owned an '84, it was no more a "Go Cart" like feel than a 993. Please give me the respect that I have given you and don't post rude comments.

[kilodawg]

Scooter,

Personally find it interesting that you felt your '84 to be equivalent to the 993 in a "Go Cart" sense.

I currently have one of each and to me they are quite different. In my case I think it has a heck of a lot to do with how they are set up.

The 993 is completely stock but my '84 has Bilstein's (HD), 15" Fuchs with RA-1's and has been lowered. That along with the performance and audible affects of an M&K exhaust, Fabspeed Cat bypass and a SW chip transformed it from how it was when I acquired it and totally separates it from the 993. I also can't help but think that the lack of power steering adds to the affect.

Now maybe if the 993 was massaged in an equivalent way the difference would be less noticeable. I imagine though that the cost to get it there would be far greater....

[Scooter]

I think you may have misinterpreted my statements Kilodawg.

My original quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter

I've owned both and I am sorry Max, but I cannot agree with this comment. I value your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. A well set up 993 is no more a "Grand Touring" car than a well set up 3.2. They are both great cars in their own way.

My second quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter

No Max, I merely respectfully disagreed with your comment. A owned an '84, it was no more a "Go Cart" like feel than a 993. Please give me the respect that I have given you and don't post rude comments.

I did not say a 993 has a "Go Cart" feel. My point in my first post was that I believe a well set up 993 is no less competent than a well set up 3.2. I believe it to be more competent, but we will leave that for another discussion.

My point in my second post was that I don't believe a 3.2 to drive like a "Go Cart" either.

Now, my '70 with a high compression 3.0....that drove like a go cart.

[kilodawg]

Sorry,

I was only responding to this:

A owned an '84, it was no more a "Go Cart" like feel than a 993

and assumed you were speaking in a relative sense. Not trying to get pissy...

[jmshepard]

I am lucky enough to have a 993 and a SC.
SC=fun
993=comfort

If I had to choose between them, I'd take the SC. In fact
I'm getting ready to buy another one.
Jim S.

[holtjv]

I think my signature says it all.

Good luck, either will be an incredible experience for you. And no one's saying you can't have two, or at least trade up/down in a year or two. For the pure lustiness of an aircooled 911, I say go for the 3.2. The a/c in the 993 really was not up to grade compared to Japanese or American cars of the same era--a tradeoff, to be sure.

Jack

[RWebb]

Let's define:

"Go Carts" and/or "G Cart Feel"
&
"GT Car"