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Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
959 Porn: Today's progress (10-23-07)

Boy, if you enjoy getting sleep, then don't own your own business *and* have kids. I am running on empty these days, and working on a complex car like this doesn't add to the mood. I've been crabby all day. Got some stuff done today, but broke something too. I've posted the pics, and I'll annotate each one...

Here is the little oil pressure switch that I'm suspecting needs to be replaced. The car has been giving me an oil warning lamp and buzzer (only found on the 959) that is triggered by this sensor and/or the oil tank level sensor. This is the same part on the 911 that fails all of the time. This part is located all the way in the back of the engine, see this diagram for details (it's number 45):

http://www.pelicanparts.com/PartsLookup/HTML/E_959_KATALOG/101-10-Frame4.htm

Here's a new sending unit. It's the same one used on the 911, and it costs about $7 or so from us:



Okay, here's the starting point for replacement, the 959 engine bay. Pretty cool huh?



In order to reach this part, it's obvious that I need to remove the air cleaner. That's this grey box with PORSCHE written on it.



Start by removing the intake hoses. You might think that air goes from the turbochargers to the engine through these hoses, but in fact, it's the opposite - fresh air that has been filtered goes to the turbocharger system and flows from the air cleaner to the rear of the car.



Here's the gap where one of these cool, conical-looking hoses were removed.



With the straps undone, you can slide out the air filter. Yup, it's specific to the 959, and has a 959 part number. I wonder what these cost. Whoops, just looked it up, $341.86. Mine still looks pretty good, so we'll keep it in place for now. Those rubber straps are "reasonable" at $16.57 each.



It looks like you can remove the top of the lid by reaching through, but in reality, you can't. You need to squeeze the box out through other means.



Really sloppy mechanics have badly scratched the bottom of the air cleaner on the rubber mount that attaches to the top of the air intake. You can see the scratches in the photo. I managed to wiggle it out without any additional damage. It changes how you treat the car when you own it yourself, I guess.



Whoops, there's an oil breather hose attached to the rear of the air cleaner that needs to be disconnected. Mental note: don't forget to reconnect this when the air cleaner is reinstalled. On a related note, I recommend taking digital photos of all your projects so that you can refer to them later on in case you don't remember where something goes. This indeed has saved my butt many times in the past...

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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:44 PM
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Here's one of my favorite parts of the car - the fan shroud, which appears to be manufactured out of carbon-kevlar. You can see the kevlar grain pattern here in the red paint.



These are two "cycle valves" used by the turbocharging system to spool up and swap. One of the valves controls the opening and closing of the wastegate, and the other valve controls the crossover valve which sends charged air back and forth between the turbochargers. When the system is malfunctioning, the valves default to a maximum charge pressure of 1.5 bar.



Photos of the back of the manifold. Those aluminum tubes in the rear come from the intercoolers and transport the compressed air from the turbochargers.




Charged air tube from the intercooler, and some type of radiator tank. There's another tank on the opposite side.



The turbo system cycle valves, with the power steering reservoir in the background (I think that's for the power steering). Another water tank in the background too (on the right side of the car).



View of the whole engine bay with the air cleaner partially disconnected and pushed off to the side.



It's best to use a moving blanket to cover the important parts of the engine, so that you don't scratch anything or drop tools in there.



Here is the area where the pressure sensor goes. It's very crowded in there...

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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:48 PM
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First thing I had to do was disconnect the throttle body potentiometer plug because that wire harness was in the way. Be careful not to drop the small wire clips into the recesses of the engine.



Using a very long set of needle-nose pliers, pull up on the connector and remove it carefully from the pressure switch.



There was a fuel line that was running right through the area I needed to get to, so I had to disconnect that from the main connection.




With the fuel line and harness out of the way, you can see the pressure switch. Don't let this photo deceive you - it's way the heck back there, I'm surprised my camera got this shot.



Unfortunately, while moving stuff around, one of the small rubber mounts that hold on a fuel pressure regulator broke off. With no room in there at all, there's really no hope of getting the other metal piece off of the intake manifold without dropping the engine. Stuff like this always frustrates me, because the perfect solution would be to replace with a brand new part. But, you'd have to tear a whole bunch of stuff apart just to reach the part that broke while you were tearing other stuff apart. The likelihood of damaging something else may be high too. In this case, I opted to get some super-strength epoxy and glue the rubber and metal piece back together. The rubber did not get damaged, it simply came unglued from where the factory had glued it 20 years earlier. Still, I'm never happy when things like this happen, particularly on a car like this. If the engine gets dropped in the future, I will be sure to replace this part (probably all of the mounts) with new ones.



Left - too short. Right - too long. Middle - just right. I went to the hardware store down the street, and all they had was a deep socket like the on on the right. (tip: 15/16th = 24mm which is the diameter for this switch). So, they were kind enough to cut the darn thing on their huge wheel grinder. Took about 1 minute, and the thing was very hot, but it fit! The long socket was too long because the top hit the top of the intake charge tube. As in many other cases, nothing beats having (or making) the right tool for the job.

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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:49 PM
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When I pulled out the pressure sensor, this mount / holder piece came out with it. I installed this one back in first, and then installed the new sensor.



Here we are all buttoned up again. I did not tighten the rubber mount that is still curing the epoxy - we'll wait on that tomorrow. A test start of the engine revealed no fuel leaks, and no obvious oil leaks either. When I installed the pressure switch I forgot to plug the harness back in (before reinstalling the throttle position sensor, and the fuel line). Doh! This made getting the connector on there quite difficult. I had to disconnect the throttle harness again, but I didn't have to mess with the fuel line. Then, I made sure that the grommet was covering the connector appropriately. Tomorrow we will put the air cleaner back on, and button the whole thing up and then test the car on the road. With the fixes done on Monday, we'll hopefully be able to somewhat test the turbo system. You really can't fully test without the appropriate boost gauge, but you can sortof tell what boost you're getting from the gauge below the tachometer (like on all turbos). If the cycle valves are functioning properly, then we should be getting close to 1.9 bar at full throttle around 3000 rpm (if memory serves me correctly).

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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:09 PM
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Continued fascination! I am oddly gratified the same crap breaks on your '87 959 as breaks on my '72 and '76 "lowly" 911s. I have broken every single one of those rubber isolation mounts while tending to other components!! Many break in-place too, found at least 2 dead ones in my latest car. Good idea replacing 'em all.
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:33 PM
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Wayne,
Any idea of the labor charge for this at the dealer? I'm guessing about a bill, but then I don't get out too much.

Sherwood
Old 10-23-2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
Wayne,
Any idea of the labor charge for this at the dealer? I'm guessing about a bill, but then I don't get out too much.

Sherwood
The reality is that although everyone holds "the dealer" in high regard with respect to the final word on repairs, the truth of the matter is that they rarely work on anything more than 5-10 years old. I'd bet that most mechanics at the dealer wouldn't know where this sensor is located, let alone how long it would take to replace it on a particular 911. You have to remember, if you look at the service dept of your local dealer, you will probably only see Boxsters, 996s, Cayennes, and 997s there...

-Wayne
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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:21 PM
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"...I'd bet that most mechanics at the dealer wouldn't know where this sensor is located, .."

I think that could apply to many Pcar shops. Them 959s aren't too plentiful in Dubuque or Stuttgart. A dealer would probably have better access to 959 service info. although not sure how robust PCNA's online data capabilities are.

Sherwood
Old 10-23-2007, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
"...I'd bet that most mechanics at the dealer wouldn't know where this sensor is located, .."

I think that could apply to many Pcar shops. Them 959s aren't too plentiful in Dubuque or Stuttgart. A dealer would probably have better access to 959 service info. although not sure how robust PCNA's online data capabilities are.

Sherwood
The sensor is located in the same spot as all of the 1965-89 911s. What I meant is that I would doubt that many mechanics at the dealer would know where that sensor is located on any 1965-89 car...

-Wayne
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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
• 101 Projects for Your MINI Cooper
Old 10-24-2007, 12:50 AM
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Cool stuf Wayne ! too bad all the parts are so expensive on these cars but you going over this car makes great articles

found the 959 part of the 1987 calender if you want it it,s yours.



Cheers,


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Old 10-24-2007, 12:56 AM
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Wayne,
When you get further into the project you should create a separate folder for the 959 threads so we can go directly to where we left off. This is fasinating. Thanks for taking the time to share with those of us who might never see a 959 close up.
Old 10-24-2007, 04:03 AM
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This is just great.

Thanks for going to this trouble for us Wayne!

Jay
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:43 AM
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What resistance value was the old sender showing? Or was it impossible to measure the resistance without taking all that stuff off, and once you've done that you might as well replace the sender?
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:32 AM
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All this stuff is very cool Wayne! I can't thank you enough for posting it.

I have a question/comment about the lose hose coupling from the low speed turbo boost:

If a coupling like this was lose on my 930, the car wouldn't run: The air is metered BEFORE the turbo on a 930, so with out boost this would appear as a huge vacuum leak, and with boost, the car would try to run overly rich.

Since your car is running, the air flow must be measured somewhere AFTER the turbo. I can't tell from the photos where, or how this is being done. Can you?

Also on the twin turbo design, is there also a valve in the exhaust system that directs the exhaust to one of the two turbos- Or are they both always running receiving pressurized exhaust?

And finally, is there condition when both turbos provide pressurized air to the engine? If so, then when that hose was lose from on the low RPM engine turbo, pressurized air would have been leaking out there from the high RPM engine turbo when under high speed boost?

I'd love to see a diagram of how this is set up on a 959. Lots of unanswered questions in my mind!!!

Thanks again for all the great photos and commentary. They are the high point of my day.
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:54 AM
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Fantastic stuff!

I'm living vicariously through you. . .

You know, your discussion before about this oil alarm system (the light & warning buzzer that kept going off) makes me wonder if there wouldn't be some way to create a "kit" to retrofit to other "normal" 911s based on the same circuitry and Porsche part #'s - similar to what you did with the "peace-of-mind tensioner upgrade kit" and the "carrera oil cooler kit" (both of which I'll be purchasing, incidentally). It's probably a bit of a pain and would require pouring over wiring diagrams and cross-checking with hard-to-locate stuff on the car, but I bet it could be done, and it probably would be a good upgrade. Probably somewhere in the $200-$300 range (?) Heck, I'd pay for that just to have the additional warning if oil pressure ever gets too low. . .

Your pictures of fishing around in that mess of hoses reminds me quite a bit of wrenching on a 951. LOTS of places to lose bolts, washers, clamps, sockets, etc. I STRONGLY suggest having an assortment of magnets on-hand, a couple of good high-intensity flashlights and one of those little "claw" things in the flexible metal tube to help with dropped items. As much as you try to avoid dropping stuff, you inevitably will. Trust me. Been there, done that.

NOTHING is more frustrating when one of the last bolts going back on the engine falls prey to the clutches of gravity and you hear "plink, plink, plink. . . nothing" (doesn't come out the bottom). Grr.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:21 AM
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I'm tired now just reading that. Good job. You just earned $6500.00 Cash in your wallet ! Thats what a dealer would have charged to replace that sender.

Between this and your door lock switch I'd sya you have already printed around 10 Grand ! Keep going !
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:27 AM
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Very good of you to take the time to share this operation with all of us, Wayne! Particularly as many of us know what it΄s like to have a handful of children and a job that is basically a 24/7 gig.

What I often find the most awesome with things like this, is that here we are admiring an iconic piece of machinery, stunned by it΄s complexity and ingenious design for it΄s time period - but how impressive isn΄t those guys who designed and put it together in the first place! Coming up with the ideas and make it work.

I would love to learn about how that went. These engineers, sitting down brainstorming after receiving the order from upstairs.

- Let΄s see guys. Now if we mount two turbos in this fashion with a little of that and some of this and then change this part and re route this and then.....what do you think ? Would that work ?

Amazing.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts View Post
The reality is that although everyone holds "the dealer" in high regard with respect to the final word on repairs, the truth of the matter is that they rarely work on anything more than 5-10 years old. I'd bet that most mechanics at the dealer wouldn't know where this sensor is located, let alone how long it would take to replace it on a particular 911. You have to remember, if you look at the service dept of your local dealer, you will probably only see Boxsters, 996s, Cayennes, and 997s there...

-Wayne
When I used to work at a dealer, we hated working on anything over 10 years old. Manuals had to be found, special tools rounded up, and the worst part was that something always broke trying to access something else (especially the interior due to the brittle plastic).
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:08 AM
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This series goes way beyond just how to repair a 959. It is the art and science of how to approach and repair a car in general and a Porsche in particular.

This is, at least in my opinion, the "Zen" of owning and maintaining an older Porsche. The idea of preserving the threads as a group deserves consideration, even publishing the series ( ? The Zen of Porsche Repair) may have merit. It's up to Wayne of course. But even in the present format, it is appreciated.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by john_cramer View Post
What resistance value was the old sender showing? Or was it impossible to measure the resistance without taking all that stuff off, and once you've done that you might as well replace the sender?
It's some type of switch, so it's an on/off operation. At least that's how I'm told it works...

-Wayne
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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
• 101 Projects for Your MINI Cooper
Old 10-24-2007, 11:07 AM
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