question on power windows relay kit.
 

I took the image from someone on this board down and don't really understand. I added the doors labels. Can someone sit with me for a while, if you understand it.

On the right relay, if driver door is open (relay grounded), terminal 87 put 12+ to the motors. Cool

On the left relay, it will put out 12+ at terminal 87 only IF passenger door is opened AND key at ON position (assumming driver door is closed).

So if both doors are closed even ignition key is at ON position, car is driving, I can't use my windows because there is no ground to any relay? There must be something I don't understand.

Another thought, I think the right relay should be for both doors. So either door is open, windows work. And left relay terminal 85 should always be grounded so that so that if key in ignition ON, windows will work, even if both doors are closed. Am I correct.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1193203066.jpg

Does this look correct? But this means either door is opened, everything works the same.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1193205898.jpg

Unless you cropped out a door switch that someone else edited in ... that left-most brown wire was always permanently grounded in original diagram below!

http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_...SC_Part4-2.jpg

I downloaded that way. Your image look like the original schematic. The one I downloaded, someone already modified the circuit to save battery drain.
So I was correct then.
Thanks

rnln,
That was my modified drawing that was part of a thread about the infamous convenience relay. As Warren states the left most ground is always connected to chassis. When the ignition is in the run position the relay is energized and allows the power windows to operate. When the ignition is off, 12 volts is nolonger provided to the relay and the power windows will not operate. If your car is equiped with the additional relay then it becomes active when the door switch provides a ground an independent of the ignition switch. I have never seen an 'official' factory drawing that shows the secondary relay. I'm guessing it was short lived and replaced with an electronic relay that had the convenience feature built-in.

Ron,
yes, I remember you rnickname now. Thanks for response, and the relays design.
I have another question. On my 87, the switches works fine but the power windows are always on.
I wanted to do this but looking at the factory relay (most left, long relay behind the gauges), the terminal labeled in weird number. I can't tell which gauge is which. So I plan to leave it alone, and add 2 normal relays to between the factory relay and the motor, meaning the factory relay still there and voltage will go through it as normal but it won't do anything in this task.
Do you see any problem doing it this way?

I'm going to have to find a wiring diagram for an 87 to understand what you are trying to do. I'm pretty sure that by 87 the power window relay was more of a controller then a simple power switch. Someone with an 87 will hopefully jump in and explain how their windows work. I'm guessing but I would think that the circuit was designed to allow the windows to operate after the ignition was turned off and before the door was opened, that seems fairly stanard these days. You might have a bad power window module.
For the record the relay that I call the convenince relay was a factory product. The harness part number is 911-612-147-01