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Porsche Carrera GT Crash Settled for $4.5M
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/content/carrera
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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of: 101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 • SPEED READ: Porsche 911 Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports |
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Author of "101 Projects"
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continued...
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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of: 101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 • SPEED READ: Porsche 911 Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports |
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Author of "101 Projects"
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-Wayne
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Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of: 101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 • SPEED READ: Porsche 911 Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports |
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Friends of Warren
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 3,133
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I think that this is the only good that came out of this case.... and also the jury put a lot of responsibility (44%) on this. As a DE partecipant I have the most interest in these events being the safest possible for everybody. Do I take a risk driving a the race track? Yes Do I expect the track layout to be as safe as possible? Yes Do I expect the marshalls to do their job properly? Yes Maybe now special attention will be given by all track day organizations to possible obstacles around the race track. If these are not movable then maybe a breef will be issued and drivers will be made aware. Maybe now tech inspection (even though it doesn't really matter in THIS particular case) will be required by a certified workshop. And a lot of other things that could/will make our days safer at the track will be implemented. The sad thing though here is that the above is only the marginal part of the story... The big news is that Porsche was found guilty (even though only by 8%). It is incredible that this line of thinking was even accepted.. It's like saying that a gun manufacturer is responsible because the gun fired by an unexperienced individual killed someone by mistake. The other point of interest to me is the fact that the jury held Mr Keaton as the major responsible party at 49%... With this I have issues... if the waiver is void in case of gross misconduct (and for the track and Ferrari club u can say that) then Mr Keaton really didn't do anything that qualify as fgross misonduct.. he was driving fast on a race track... So I don't really understand how/why the waiver does not work in his favor. Mr Rudi signed the waiver and climbed on the CGT. He knew the risks he was going to be exposed to riding shotgun with someone he barely knew. Again I can understand finding the track responsible, but I am appaled at Mr Keaton estate being the biggest contributor to the settlement. |
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Nothing here surprises me. If I'm going to participate in what many would consider a foolhardy occupation and things turn out poorly, someone's going to pay for my errors. Every time I do a DE, I'm surprised they can get away with them with all the legal issues that could ensue. I would wager that in 5-10 years this is all going to end.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Saugerties, NY
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McClellan points out that the typical SCM subscriber, a car enthusiast who holds fast cars and racetracks dear, will never make it onto this jury. The jurors will be more ordinary citizens. "Most people, especially those with children on the streets and highways, would fear a vehicle like the Carrera GT, with its tricky handling characteristics, 600-plus horsepower, and unskilled, unqualified drivers. When a 'race car for the streets' is sold to anyone with enough money, regardless of his ability to drive it, and it doesn’t even incorporate modern electronic safety devices that correct driver errors, then maybe the manufacturer should accept some responsibility for the foreseeable deaths that will result."
This must give Porsche and other supercar manufacturers some pause. It seems obvious to me that just because one is a captain of industry, it doesn't follow that one has Allan McNish's abilities with a fast car. But the egos of some of those purchasers don't allow for that. Does this mean that in future that Porsche et al. will be installing PSM-like devices, and with whom does the legal liability of the PSM off switch lie? Thanks, Wayne, for this post. |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Denver Area
Posts: 1,017
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Just think guys, had the litigation of today been around in the 50s our beloved vehicles (Porsches 356, 911/912/930/964/993) would have never made it into production. They would have been deemed unsafe by trial lawyers and juries and consequently never been built. Whatever happened to people understanding and respecting the capabilities and responsibility of the vehicle they drove?
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Grady aka plain fan 66 912 - enjoying the good life 78 911 SC and 90 C2 turbo look cab - gone but not forgotten 01 996 TT - ![]() 09 Audi A4 Avant - daily driver |
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One of my first reactions when I saw the pictures of the accident was why did the Ferrari club let them run without the roof panels. I wonder how much of the high speed handling was related to that.
I think it's unfortunate that such a large part of the settlement came from the driver. While a good deal of fault for the passenger's death may lie with the driver, I think an almost equal amount lies with the passenger for getting in the car. As a racer, I'm glad the track was forced to take some responsibility. I'm amazed by some track layouts that are obviously dangerous (No Problem in Lousiana comes to mind). I raced there twice, but finally decided my life is worth more than a day at the track. I understand they made changes, but it's too late to win back this driver.
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2014 Cayman S (track rat w/GT4 suspension) 1979 930 (475 rwhp at 0.95 bar) |
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As a retired claims manager for a major insurer, I think the award was reasonable and justified, maybe even on the low side after attorney's fees are deducted. But I also believe that Porsche's liability percentage should have been significantly higher than a paltry 8% of the award.
At Rennsport Reunion II, Hurley Haywood (I believe) was doing demonstration laps in a black CGT. It had obvious, serious oversteer issues in the hairpin. I was not impressed at all with what I saw. With that level of power in an evil handling (at the limit) chassis, and considering the target customer for that car, PSM really should have been standard. After all, they put sunroofs in the '07 GT3's, so the "voice of the enthusiast" argument holds no water.
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Jack 2007 GT3 gone but not forgotten: 1987 Carrera IROC backdate, '89 Carrera M491, '96 993, '93 964 RSA(two), '00 996, '97 Boxster, '79 911SC, '78 928, '76 924, '75 914, '74 911, '74 914, '72 911E, '72 911T/V, '71 911T, '70 911T, '66 912, '65 356C, '61 356B roadster, '60 356B |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Costa Mesa
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I remember a television special with Jay Leno and Hurley Hayward breaking records at Daytona with the CGT. Leno had a spin on the straight which was not unlike the oversteer problem outlined here. Supercars and driving fast take driving to "the edge". "The edge" is called "the edge" because there is no margin for error past this point, even if it was only 120-130mph. I have to agree that the driver has most of the responsibility in this situation and unfortunately he paid for it monetarily in addition to losing his life. We have all signed waivers without a second thought because if we didn't we were not going to be allowed to play. Nobody held a gun to the passengers head and I remember thinking, "if one of my friends had offered me the same ride I would have probably taken that opportunity". A sobering set of facts and a reality check for all. Thanks for posting this information.
Regards, Charles
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Charles 1970 911t 1962 356 S90 1964 Safari Rally Comet Editor www.Bench-Racing.com |
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That's just it... this is the angle that the law is argued from in many cases. There have been numerous cases recently where someone has been killed with a firearm and the family has gone after both the person who pulled the trigger and the gun manufacturer!! Though I've seen this primarily in cases involving kids. On the other hand, look at the huge awards that have been levied against the Tobacco industry over the last few years. Did these manufacturer force these people to actually purchase and use their product? No, but the courts contend that their ads make it glamorous and acceptable.... uhhhh, but does it say that you must do this? Does Porsche or any other manufacturer say that you must drive fast? P-
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RGruppe #180 So many cars.. so little time!! |
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It's unfortunate that we're so inclined to look for a deep pocket. I guess "assumption of risk" is now always trumped by the "awareness of money." Too bad. Sometimes in life, there's just bad luck.
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Jon |
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Jack 2007 GT3 gone but not forgotten: 1987 Carrera IROC backdate, '89 Carrera M491, '96 993, '93 964 RSA(two), '00 996, '97 Boxster, '79 911SC, '78 928, '76 924, '75 914, '74 911, '74 914, '72 911E, '72 911T/V, '71 911T, '70 911T, '66 912, '65 356C, '61 356B roadster, '60 356B |
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Actually if there had been the litigation of today back then there would have been seatbelts, non deadly dashboards, real brakes, tempered glass, airbags, and a lot of other safety items a lot sooner. Lots fewer dead people too, over the years. If there was no danger of being sued one can only imagine the unsafe, toxic, crap we would be subjected to by companies trying to make a buck. People only hate lawyers until they need one. As for the gun manufacturer metaphor... If you bought a gun that sent the bullet out the back one in 1000 times when an inexperienced shooter used it, you bet there would be a law suit. Lots of law suits....
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1972 Porsche 914 Project 2000 BMW M5 1973 Aermacchi 350 |
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Friends of Warren
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 3,133
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All these activities involve a basic element of risk. The individual practising them should take responsibility for that. If there is gross negligence I agree that a someone has to pay. In this case I think that the lawsuit was important to establish that the Track and the Ferrari club did things that increased the risk embedded with the activity. But blaming Porsche for the crash is absurd. The driver has to know their limits and the car's limit. I am still on the fence about deciding wether the driver committed gross neglicence or if it was just a series of events that colluded tocreate an inevitable scenario. Mr Rudi climbed into the car knowingly and assumed some risks. These risks were amplyfied by the track layout and the Ferrari driver. Did Mr Keaton drive beyond his or the car's capabilities? I guess the jury decided he did (he was complaining abt the behaviour of the car) and hit him with the biggest pecuniary fine... |
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And this is fine too... but the question is should they be held accountable for that person doing so? Sig Sauer makes great pistols.... you buy one and shoot you're next door neighbor.. should Sig be held accountable for your actions? You're cutting a turkey at Thanksgiving, you've already had a bit too much to drink.. the knife slips and you cut the finger off of the kid who's family is visiting. Whose accountable....you, the knife manufacturer, the liquor store where you purchased the alcohol, the alcohol manufacturer or (D) all of the above? Ok, yeah that sounds stupid right? You'd be surprised what passes through and gets litigated in our courts!
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RGruppe #180 So many cars.. so little time!! |
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Alter Ego Racing
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,553
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onboost, you forgot butterball fro selling the turkey that required a knife to be cut up....
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International GT Champion; Porsche GT3 Cup Trophy Champion; Klub Sport Challenge Champion; Rolex Vintage Endurance Series Champion; PCA Club Racing Champion; National Vintage Racing Champion |
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I hate to say this at risk of sounding like I'm trampling on a dead guy's grave, but it sounds like his next-of-kin is simply using the incident to fish for more money to support her high-roller lifestyle she no doubt became accustomed to by being married to a multi-millionaire. Pretty disgusting, IMHO.
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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Not surprising, really, but a sad day for car enthusiasts and everyone else IMO. Plenty of 'fault' to go around, perhaps, but lawsuits such as this could bring an end to DEs/club racing by raising costs. And that will mean more speed contests on the road, where we definitely DON'T need them
I believe the release should have settled it, absent some kind of malice. For Porsche and other car manufacturers, it means the nanny electronics are mandated. Suspect that the days of the 'supercar' are numbered.
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Now Porsche-less ex-'74 Carrera, '93 RS America, '89 Cab, '88 Coupe “Thank god there’s no 48-hour race anywhere in the world, because chances are nobody could beat Porsche in a 48 hour race.” Carroll Shelby, 1972. |
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Sports Purpose 911 Driver
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 4,368
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In my view, events with cars that can go this fast need to have greater controls else we all risk not having the ability to run our cars on a track in the future.
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James Shira R Gruppe # 271 1972 911 Coupe 3.8 RS ‘nbr two’ 1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie' 1955 356 Pre A Coupe ‘old red’ 1956 356A Emory speedster build in progress |
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