Crankshaft pulley bolt??

I'm trying to get the front crankshaft pulley off to change a leaking seal. The engine is out of the car. Is the bolt a regular thread or reverse? The bolt will not budge. My Bentley manual shows a pulley with 2 holes for using a special P tool. My pulley (with air conditioning) does not have the holes. Any ideas? Thanks,
Bruce


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Bruce
1982 SC

Bruce,

It used to be just an ordinary 12 mm bolt, Grade 8G or 8.8 ... nothing mysterious, like reverse threads. Get some penetrating oil, tilt the tail-end of the engine upwards, apply plenty of oil, let soak overnight, apply more oil, lock flywheel, apply 20" breaker bar, if that doesn't work, try impact wrench!
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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 02-12-2001).]

Bruce,

I had the same problem with my 87 Carrera. Just like Warren said- no reverse threads. I thought the same thing when I couldn't break mine free. Just get the breaker bar on it with the flywheel locked and fire up on that sucker.

If you don't have a flywheel lock, you can use a strap wrench. I believe Craftsman just came out with one that has a rubber strap that should hold pretty good. A chain wrench is also pretty effective, but the jaws on the bar dig into the pulley a little. Nonetheless, if you don't have the flywheel lock, you'll need a helper. It took myself with the chain wrench as the counterholder and my muscle-head buddy with the 24 in. breaker bar to loosen that bolt. The flywheel lock for the 5 arm holding fixture didn't fit against the 87 flywheel.

Another possibility may be due to the bolt type. The bolt should be of the Durlok type. That is, the seat under the bolt head has small "teeth" which grab the surface it is fastened against. The combination of over-torquing (I believe the spec. for the Carrera motor was 170 Nm) and a Durlok type bolt can be a bear to break free.

Muscle up my good man.


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Kevin
87 Carrera

I finally gave up during my rebuild and I have ground the head off the bolt. Amazingly, what was left screwed out by hand after the head was removed. No reverse threads...

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78 911SC

See?!!

That toothed flange has the grip of a bulldog. Once the head was free of the pulley, the threads on mine turned like brand new. They were clean as could be. It's not that the threads are frozen, the flange is the killer- very effective.


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Kevin
87 Carrera

Let me know what works, I am in the same boat with mine. How can you lock it? I don't have the flywheel lock either?

Shawn

Well, you could use a piece of angle iron with a couple of holes drilled in it. Bolt one end to the flywheel and use a couple of nuts on one of the transmission-mounting studs on the other hole. Or, you could use Leland's method and use an offset box-end wrench in place of the angle iron!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

I you don't have a flywheel lock, I would think about getting one. The factory lock I ordered was P238A (part # 000 721 238 10) and was around $30. I know the P238A fits the Carrera flywheel but I don't know about others. There are many different types and NOT all fit EVERY 911. Contrary to what some aftermarket retailer's catalogs say.

If you're in a bind, don't have a strap/chain wrench, and are feeling dangerous, you can place a flat screwdriver in the tooth of the flywheel and pray the screwdriver doesn't break while someone is jumping on the pulley bolt. I would not recommend this, it is dangerous. You could break the screwdriver (so what if it's Craftsman) but you could also break a tooth on the wheel or injure yourself. Get the lock. Don't be a dummy like someone named Kevin. I had a lock but it did not fit my 87's setup and I was losing patience. Got it from Stoddard (pictured in the back of Stoddard's catalog). I have discovered that the lock is for the 60's 911s, not all 911s Anybody want it?


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Kevin
87 Carrera

I'm in the same boat and I just said to hell with it. I ordered about $150 dollars in tools and I figure it is well worth it. I'm not going to screw around with this, I figure I'll get good use of these tools and after all the time I spend on this BBS I though I should support pelican in some manner. Good luck with your screwdrivers....

Adam Roseneck

I find these kinds of problems enjoyable, believe it or not. for example, when I did ny rear bearings recently I needed to remove the big nuts on the ends of the stub axles. I happen to know that I cannot hurt the tranny by doing this, and securing the car was easy (in gear, e-brake on). They both broke loose with a loud snap using my longest breaker bar and a 5' piece of steel pipe.

You situation is only a little different. You have the problem of preventing the crankshaft from turning (flywheel lock is no doubt the best idea though it may be possible to avoid this tool) and you also may need to keep the engine from flipping over under the turning for you will apply (engine is out of the car I believe). But you see, once you have those two problems solved, use a proper fitting socket, a long breaker bar, and as much pipe as you need. The bolt will SNAP loose. Simple brute force problems are among the most satisfying to conquer.

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'83 SC

Hey Super,

I'm hung up on the same thing you mentioned about the drive axles.

Motor's out of the car but with the e-brake and wheels blocked there's no movement of the wheel.

On the later drive axles, the nut is a big 'ol lock nut instead of the castle/cotter nut. I busted a 1/2 in. extension (had to use it to get the bar and pipe out past the fender) cranking down on that sucker. Any suggestions? That stupid breaker bar flexes like a straw when you really load it up so I slid the pipe down to the nose of the breaker bar. Still have plenty of leverage, but now my weak link is the stupid extension. Go with 3/4 in. drive or just take it to somebody with an impact?

Thanks.


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Kevin
87 Carrera

Thanks for the advice. I'll get back to it this weekend. It is tough to keep the motor from moving around doing the proceedures described above. Will try a bigger breaker bar. Do any of you worry about damaging the crankshaft by applying torque to one end while holding the other? Maybe I'm paranoid...but that is why I stopped and decided to ask the BBS for advice. Thanks again,
Bruce

No, Bruce. That is my point. I understand your worry, but trust me, you're NOT going to hurt a crankshaft this way. If there's a part on your car you can't hurt, this is the one. You could hurt it by scratching the journals or you could bugger up the flange at the end if you torqued the flywheel bolts WAY wrong or something, but you're not going to twist this item. You could hurt the flywheel teeth too. But if the flywheel is nicely secured, you can put as much force as you like on that nut. Enough to flip the engine over your house, without hurting the crank.

Same advice to you, Kevin. I placed a block of wood under the extension so that the rotating force against the nut stays at 90 degrees. Then it's just a matter of applying enough force. Always use your most 'guaranteed' tools in this operation because it's not unusual to break them. And if a half-inch drive setup is not beefy enough, then sure, go to 3/4 or 1". My biggest is 1/2" as I have zero 3/4" or 1" drive tools. But the half-inch stuff has always done the trick. Remember, I used a piece of about five or six feet long as an extension to the breaker handle and yes, when I do this I always slide the pipe to the breaker bar joint. On the 911 it was not necessary, but I have stood and bounced on that 5 or 6 foot pipe to turn an axle nut. I believe the axle nut on my '69 Beetle was torqued to about 350 lb-ft. It's a little scarry the first time you hear one of those break loose.

Enjoy, gentlemen.



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'83 SC

Sorry to hear of your troubles!

One method that might work (since the engine is out of the car) is to remove the heads and a piston or two!

Then you could use a dowel rod, or a screwdriver wrapped in a cloth through the piston rod small end and the engine case.

I suppose there may be a risk of damaging the piston rod, but since you'll raplce the wrist pin bushings anyway (I assume) and when you consider the forces the piston rod is designed to handle, its unlikely you'll do any real damage.

All the above is just theory - I used a flywheel lock on mine a big extension bar originaly designed for removing wheel nuts!

One thing to watch out for is the entire engine + stand falling over from the amount of force - I got a friend to stand on one side of the engine stand to prevent this while I applied the brute force the nut on the end.

Good luck to you.

- roGER

Well, if the engine is sitting on the ground, just be sure the breaker-bar handle is on the left side of the engine, no more than 30 degrees inclination up from horzontal ... when you lean on it! You won't have any problem with turning over 485 lbs of engine!

If the engine is on a stand, be sure to have an assistant steady the sand and engine from rolling or shifting. Make sure the breaker-bar is horizontal on the left side of the engine when you lean on it. An M12 bolt in the middle of the crank center is not going to cause any disasters when it comes loose!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Just wanted to thank all of you guys. Got the bolt off this weekend. Broke a 1/2 to 3/8 converter. Used a 1/2 with a longgg breaker bar and the thing came right off. Couldn't have done it without your help. This BBS is great. However, I put the new seal in and the outside of the seal peeled up slightly at the cutout at the 12 oclock position. I think the cutout is used to remove old seals (that is what I used it for). That happen to anyone else? I thought about knocking the edge off with a file before installation but decided not to risk getting metal particles around the inside of the engine. I might pull it out and try a new seal tomorrow. Thanks again.
Bruce


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Bruce
1982 SC

That is funny because I broke a 1/2 to 3/8 converter doing the same thing two days ago. I then proceded to try the same thing that I did to hold the crank shaft when I took off the cam nuts. I put the pulley wrench on the pulley and steadied it against on of the studs that come out from the engine and I put some force into it. I ended up breaking the damn notch on the pulley where the pulley wrench was. I'm going to buy the flywheel lock.

Adam


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1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

Adam -
I took the clutch off. Then screwed one of the flywheel screws back into the flywheel. Used a 1x4 to wedge between the screw and one of the four transmission studs. Then got back on the nut with the breaker and the nut broke loose. Was about to break down and order a flywheel lock if that didn't work. Good luck to you.
Bruce


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Bruce
1982 SC