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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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911 buying question.
I have been following discussions here for some months now and am about to buy my first 911. I have driven many examples of 911SC, Carrera, 993 and 996C4. I found all to have redeeming qualities, however I am stuck in a time warp involving the Eagles and air cooled engines.......a strange long trip. (I am a fan of Paul Freres writings and have his 911 Story as bedtime reading. I have attended many Porsche events to gain knowledge over the years. I have done my homework. I have the facts, now I'd appreciate an opinion or two please).
A 911SC or Carrera are in my sights right now, both California cars. I have found two low mileage examples. ('86 Carrera < 60K, '79 SC <40K), both in showroom condition with no distasteful modifications (just radio, uprated lights). Both are top dollar (high 20's) and I will be having a PPI performed. Both are one owner garage queens. The winner will be thrashed with care on a daily basis as a daily driver and given all the maintenance required. No other cars to be jealous of. It will be my grocery getter and dog-to-the-beach wagon also. It will be used. Recommendations for additional PPI Guys in the Monterey area welcomed. (I have a few names at the moment, but would entertain any additional info). Bay area California weather with regular trips to the Baja Cantina, Carmel Valley on Thursday for "car afflicted owner nights!" I've read all the threads on this versus that - and I'm old enough to realize that like life, every one is a compromise of some sort. I have no trouble shifting a 915, I can live with mechanical tensioners, I will not be tracking it and I like them in white. So I have it down to these two. One has a coffee table on the decklid but a skillsaw or a new decklid can fix that. (From new. color coded, with factory custom seats according to the original sticker for it's VIN). Question; I see high mileage cars at half or even a third of what these are asking, (with little wiggle room on the pric maybe). These two are like new and have *all* history. A PPI will be done...... A PPI will be done. Is a great one worth it? It will be kept, loved and driven, not for investment. Thanks, Brian. P.S. The 993 had no soul and the 996 reminded me of the feeling I got when I drove a GTO/Z06. It was fun but the smile soon faded. Great cars though, but not for me. |
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11-13-2007, 04:24 PM
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Slumlord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,983
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I'd prefer to have two cheap 911's. Actually I do have two high mileage cars. Both cheap, both great cars. And I'm not afraid to drive them because they won't be depreciating much more.
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11-13-2007, 04:36 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Santa Cruz Ca
Posts: 782
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It's always good to encounter someone who is looking for true value rather than investment value. If one of these cars will give you more personal pleasure and satisfaction than the same money will buy you elsewhere then it is definitely worth it. Do get a very thorough PPI...Jerry Woods in Campbell?
regards, Phil |
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11-13-2007, 04:38 PM
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I assume I'll be the sole voice of dissent on this but I cringe just a little every time I hear of somebody turning a low mileage 20+ year old garage queen into a daily driver. I don't mind frequent driver but a daily driver is something I would reserve for a higher mileage car that was not as meticulously cared and protected for 20+ years by PO's. The dog to the beach comment really hurt.
Can't you consider a Boxster  ...please?There are only so many of the low mileage ones left and miles, dings, dents and accidents can add up quickly in the "real" world. Having said that, enjoy which ever you get but don't post a picture of your dog in it on the way home from the beach....
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'73 914 2.0, '74 911 Coupe, '74 911 Targa '78 924, '84 944, '86 944 Turbo, '84 911 Coupe '84 944 (current), '96 993 Coupe (current) '73 911T Coupe (current) '88 930S M505 (current) |
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11-13-2007, 06:05 PM
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I bought my '85 6 mos. ago from a Doctor (orig. owner) all records and 94K on the clock. No smoke no leaks for $16.5. My third P-car and drives like new. They're out there and white is plentiful. Save the 10K for trips and tweaks. Good hunting and good luck BLS!
Scott
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Scott "Houston, Tranquility Base here, the Eagle has landed" Silver 1984 M491 Sunroof Coupe |
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11-13-2007, 06:20 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 4,184
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I'll vote with kilodawg, FWIW.
Whilst someone else on another thread put it every well when they said "if the factory feels the need to preserve a low-milage example of that model, rest assured they will", it doesn't seem to make any economic sense to buy a low-mileage garage queen and rack up the miles on it - because those miles are going to cost you disproportionately more. And the low-mileage doesn't guarantee reliability - in fact, some would argue the exact opposite, and I tend to agree. They don't like to sit. My car bears the scars and noble patina of it's long service. This was a factor in my buying it - whilst I still don't like it when it picks up another rock chip or shopping cart ding, I don't die quite as much inside as I would if it were perfect before. If you're going to use it as a "real" car, buy one that already is... 
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things. |
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11-13-2007, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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No fear Kilodawg. I do not own a digital camera. I could not post a picture if I wanted to....wouldn't know how. I will learn though.
I cannot buy two old ones as I only have parking for one. I did not realize that they were a protected species I just want to buy a good one and take good care of it. Look at it as starting with a good piece of raw material, that I will help develop some character. I'm not too keen on the 100,000 mile plus examples. The ones I've seen have *so many* worn parts other than engine wear. I do have access to excellent workshop facilities though, my old business partner from the Keys, has a outstanding workshop at his place in the hills, he races a Corvette at Laguna Seca and has lots of big red boxes with wheels on the bottom and shiny things in drawers.You see, I see it as rescuing a great piece of engineering. I could always buy a new Nissan Altima with warranty for the same price, but then monitoring all the great discussions here would make me feel like a Peeping Tom and I really believe in my heart that my dog can't wait to put some Stuttgart leather (with a blanket) under her wet sandy sit-a-pon. It will be pampered....the car that is. Thank you for the opinions and recommendations. It is really appreciated. Brian. |
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11-13-2007, 07:27 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Cornwall-on-Hudson, New York, USA
Posts: 4,499
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BLS, as the owner of a 1983 SC with 15,000 miles on it--okay, 15,000 miles since I zero-timed the engine, transmission, suspension and everything else that moves and spent $70,000 doing it myself (admittedly including a lot of mods)--I have to say that I'm always conscious of the fact that it's a quarter-century-old car, and there's no getting around that.
People love it, come running out of shops and stores at a mall when I park because it's such a timeless classic. But on the other hand, if I have to go to the airport to make an important trip that I can't miss, I sure ain't takin' the 911... If you want a daily driver that you can afford to coast over to the side of the road and spend a couple of hours waiting for the flatbed--I haven't had to do that yet, but it's always in the back of my mind--you may be okay. But remember...it's a quarter-century-old car, and you need to understand what that means.
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Stephan Wilkinson '83 911SC Gold-Plated Porsche '04 replacement Boxster |
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11-13-2007, 07:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pittsford, NY
Posts: 3,701
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While I agree with the comments above, if YOU are determined to proceed anyway, which I suspect you are, then based on your original question I would say get the 3.2. The SC guys may argue their case that the SC's are pretty reliable, but there are more reliability issues with the CIS system then there is with the motronic system of the 3.2. (at least until you know exactly how CIS works and how to diagnose and fix the problems that will come.) Keep a spare DME relay in the glove box for the 3.2 and do your basic maintenance and it should be fine as a daily driver. If you go with the 86, I would suggest you have the injectors cleaned, replace all rubber hoses for the oil and vacuum systems and rebuild the brake calipers. If you want functioning a/c and cruise control, those are separate issues that will need $$$ work regardless of how much you pay for the car. Early factory a/c was just lousy.
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Tony G 2000 Boxster S Last edited by tonythetarga; 11-14-2007 at 04:30 AM.. |
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11-14-2007, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
However, since you did ask, I must tell you. You are indeed a unique individual if you can purchase a low mileage, pristine "garage queen" and drive it daily enduring dings from shopping carts, careless moms in SUVs who throw their doors open into yours at the mall, scarred leather from paws, shopping bags, firewood, auto parts, etc. Most of us find ourselves parking as far from the door as possible at all public places, sitting next to the window at restaurants to keep an eye on the car during dinner, avoiding valets, and leaving the car in the garage on LOTS of occaisions because we aren't comfortable with the risks involved with taking our Porsche. Buy the car that makes you happy, we really don't care. (well, most of us don't) But you should be mindful that your car won't look the same in a couple of years as it does today. All the best -e.
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Black Widow Blk on Blk '86 911 "...the secret to Porsche: we do things others cannot" |
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11-14-2007, 04:50 AM
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Zink Racer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 3,992
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I have two SC's that get frequent use. One a much modded track car with a 3.2 conversion and one fairly stock that Mr. Pelican used to own. Pic below. That car has a rebuilt motor and various other nice bits, new paint, etc. I've considered making it my daily driver but right now it's got a few niggling electrical issues to fix first.
 I'd buy the newest one of the two and use it like you want to. A few years newer and the 3.2 would be my choice over an SC as a daily driver. If my Dogs were not so damn big I'd take them to the park in mine. And make sure the damn mirrors, window defroster, cruise control, electric seats, etc. work along with the motor, brakes and tranny. Throw a blanket in it for the Dog and roll the window down a bit so he can stick his head out. Mine has a Yakima rack to carry my bike too!!! These are not rare cars that need to be pampered if what you want is to drive one every day. Go to a concours, there are plenty of folks with Q tips ( I have no problem with that and respect the effort they put in) preserving every version of every model. Bottom line is these are fun cars to drive every day or once a week. To suggest you buy an 86 low mile Carrera and then use it on only nice days where it won't get hurt or nicked by some soccer mom on her cell phone doesn't make any sense to me. Huh, it's not a frickin RS or rare soft window Targa. They don't get nicer sitting in the garage with seals drying up, fluids congealing, spiders and rodents getting in places they shouldn't be. I have a "show car", a rare 76 Jaguar XJ Coupe, probably a few hundred left in nice shape in the US. I'd love for someone to take it off my hands. It's taking up valuable Porsche parking space. Yeah, it won't look the same in 5 years after daily use and it shouldn't. If it gets nicked so what, get it painted 10 years from now. Sounds like you've done your research and can afford a nice example. High $20's seems like a big premium even for a close to perfect Carrera though. I would think high teens is more realistic. Good luck and good hunting. 
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Jerry 1964 356, 1983 911 SC/Carrera Franken car, 1974 914 Bumblebee, a couple of other 914's in various states of repair |
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11-14-2007, 05:58 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 155
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I would look for a 15 to $22k car for daily driving. A Porsche re-seller told me that Carreras under 20K were junk. He had a low mileage nice car for $27K. I found a car in essentially the same condition with 104K miles for $10k less. Unless you're going to Q-tip it, I think you would be over paying for a daily driver. Use the money you save for a second car or repairs/mods on a 911. A low mileage car could still need expensive repairs just as much as a higher mileage car.
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1987 911 Carrera 2006 Audi A3 |
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11-14-2007, 06:32 AM
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MBruns for President
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Good grief - buy the car you like - and drive the snot out of it. I bought my 1987 cabriolet 5 years ago - it was completely original - and had 43,000 miles on it. Now it has 63,000 miles - and no longer original - but it sure is mine.
I take it to the beach (oh the horror) - I take it to the track - and flog it - I take it to the grocery store - shoot my wife is daily driving it for the next three months because she is over the mileage on her lease. It's a car - a fine car - drive it - life is short, I have no regrets.
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Current Whip: - 2003 996 Twin Turbo - 39K miles - Lapis Blue/Grey Past: 1974 IROC (3.6) , 1987 Cabriolet (3.4) , 1990 C2 Targa, 1989 S2 |
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11-14-2007, 06:53 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4
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Thank you for the replies and encouragement. Even the "please don't do this" comments were well taken. But that Boxster comment really hurt
 Apologies...(I think?). I was not aware I was argueing against my own question. It was not intentional, I can assure you. I am valueing the opinions here. Many thanks. The, "Are they worth it", was meant as are the the cars worth it, not the PPI. If that was the confusion.....I'm confused!  Maybe some folks should band together and buy all the clean ones, to prevent them being used? The trouble is, it is really not worth that much unless it is a rare one, and the rare ones get sold at Pebble Beach or Scottsdale auctions. I could understand that sentiment were it a Toyota 2000GT, a DB4, or Napier Railton, Tucker et al. There are many reasons I want a 911 air cooled. I drove my first one in 1980, it was a '78 SC and quite memorable. In '80 I also got to do several laps of Silverstone (UK track) in a a '73 RS. A car freak friend, trailered two of his RS's there for the day. Still memorable. I do not want folks rushing out to look at it etc, plus there are quite a few where I live in Carmel, so it will not be too outstanding. In fact I have heard 996's referred to as "Carmel Valley Valley Volkswagens", by an aircoolled friend. By the side of the road we have SC's with shatterered timing chain tensioners, Carreras with dead DME relays and second gear problems, 993's coughing up their valves with 11 new spark plugs and 996's with RMS issues leaking oil and stinking of that hot sunny day plastic smell, so if my 25 year old does break down, it'll be in good company The comment on hoses/calipers was well received. Many thanks. In fact the '86was used as a daily driver for two years and rotors were worn, so all 4 corners (pads, calipers, rotors) were replaced, before it shared garage space with several other cars 3 years ago. Now is is a Sunday driver by it's dedicated owner. The SC is probably the more "neglected" of the two. Driven to events and intimatly aquainted with Meguiars Wax, but not a heavy right foot, or a quick gearchange. Like many Harleys believe that the back of a pick up truck is a road surface, this poor car believes carpet to be the best thing next to rubber. I could be the more deserving candidate...... The DME relay point was well taken. It can go in that cheesy canvas backpack in the trunk with overnight garb and a wash kit in it and no doubt a few other pieces. Many thanks for you input. I has given some things to think about and enlightened me as to the views of a selection of Porsche drivers regarding the marque they have chosen to support. Thanks. Regards to all, Brianc |
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11-14-2007, 11:17 AM
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I like your plan. What good is a low mileage car stuck in a garage anyhow? They're cars, not art objects, and should be treated as such. Most of us will run out of lifeforce or gasoline long before the last 911 wears out.....
Edit Added: In my experience, low mileage 20 year old cars are not necessarily more reliable than high mileage ones... often it's the opposite, because the low mileage ones didn't need much maintenance on account of just sitting there.
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'88 Coupe Lagoon Green "D'ouh!" "Marge - it takes two to lie. One to lie, and one to listen" "We must not allow a Mineshaft Gap!" Last edited by burgermeister; 11-15-2007 at 02:52 AM.. |
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11-15-2007, 02:09 AM
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?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 30,460
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Quote:
ps: I (and many others) searched over six months before finding the "right" one. Last edited by KFC911; 11-15-2007 at 03:05 AM.. |
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11-15-2007, 03:03 AM
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Band.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 13,323
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I guess in the end you need to do whatever makes you happy, but as many have said;
High $20K's is about $10K too high. Get your brain away from those two cars, and go drive 4 5 or 10 more. Make a weekend trip out of it. I bought the first 911 I ever drove, and I pay for it every day. My second 911 was purchased after I spent 3 months learning, reading, and talking to friends here. I drove and rode in 25+ 911s before my 2nd car, and it was worth every minute. Edit: I just read your first post again. Sorry If I'm telling you something you already know. 40K SC? Man, you'll spend a couple grand just replacing dried up stuff in that one.
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1983 SC Coupe 1963 BMW R60/2 1972 Triumph Tiger 1995 Triumph Daytona SuperIII Last edited by Gogar; 11-15-2007 at 07:43 AM.. |
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11-15-2007, 07:37 AM
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MBruns for President
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BTW - and for the record - I targeted the G-50 carreras specifically. I think they are the most likely to retain their value in the whole scheme of things. I bought my car for $19,000 and pretty sure I could sell it for that these days...
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Current Whip: - 2003 996 Twin Turbo - 39K miles - Lapis Blue/Grey Past: 1974 IROC (3.6) , 1987 Cabriolet (3.4) , 1990 C2 Targa, 1989 S2 |
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11-15-2007, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 30,460
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Jeremy "stole" his
. I was after the same (a low mileage G50), but paid a LOT more, and ditto on being able to recoup if ya wanted to (even at my high 20s price)...I don't! Jeremy, do you still have all those "links" handy? One really should search "far & wide" if you want to locate a bargain like he did. Have it checked out by a Pelican first, then a PPI, fly in with a round-trip ticket "just in case", then drive home with the biggest grin imaginable...
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11-15-2007, 09:26 AM
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1984 Porsche 911 Coupe 3.2
1985 Porsche 911
Beast
2017 Porsche Macan GTS
Black Widow
Gone to California
Turbo
1988 Porsche 911 3.2
