Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to morrisjm1 Send a message via Yahoo to morrisjm1
Ball joint question

Gentlepersons,

'78 911 SC, Targa

I'm replacing the ball joints and strut cartridges. I'm having trouble with the tapered pins that hold ball joints in the struts.

The old pins where flush with the strut housing when I removed them. I can't get the new pins to flush up. I've slathered them with anit-seize goop and aligned the the best I can, and driven them in with a brass drift. They stop moving with about 1/64", maybe a little more, sticking out. I've reinstalled the old pin and it goes in until it's flush, but the new pin stops short.

I think maybe they are seated completely, they sound like they are, but they still sticks out a little. Could be a slight difference in the taper or diameter of the new pins, I don't know. Do you guys think it's good enough to torque the nut on, or is something still wrong?

Thanks for your help,
Mike
__________________
'78 911SC Targa (SCWDP member #17)
'74 MGB (one owner)
Pickup
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
2013 VW Golf TDI
Old 12-03-2007, 06:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Grady Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arapahoe County, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,032
Take it back out and compare to the old wedge pins. There are some in the system that have a slightly different angle to the wedge part. The general consensus is to not use them.

This has been discussed before. Do a Search.

Best,
Grady
__________________
ANSWER PRICE LIST (as seen in someone's shop)
Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75
Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25
Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50
Old 12-03-2007, 06:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to morrisjm1 Send a message via Yahoo to morrisjm1
Thanks Grady, I'll do a search.
__________________
'78 911SC Targa (SCWDP member #17)
'74 MGB (one owner)
Pickup
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
2013 VW Golf TDI
Old 12-03-2007, 06:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,018
Hi Mike -
Please post back your findings. I recently ran into the exact same issue w/new pins ordered from our host. I called them good, even though they were sticking out a bit just like yours. I pounded the heck out of them and they would not sit flush like the ones I removed. I figured they sure as heck weren't going anywhere, so I left them. I'd love to hear if they are unsafe!

Thanks,
Tom
__________________
'74 911 Red Sunroof Coupe, 3.6L, etc...
Old 12-03-2007, 06:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Chuck Moreland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 5,658
1/64 inch is less than .5mm, this is nothing.

There was a batch of OEM wedge pins a few years back that were cut wrong, they stood proud about 5mm.
__________________
Chuck Moreland - Elephant Racing
Elephant Racing on Facebook
Old 12-03-2007, 09:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to morrisjm1 Send a message via Yahoo to morrisjm1
Thanks Chuck.

The 1/64" was a bad estimate based on mostly feeling it last night. I measured it this morning and it is actually 2.5mm, or about 3/32". It seems pretty tight and I think it'll be ok, what do you think.

I did a search and it seems the ones that didn't fit a while back stuck out as much as a 1/4". The some guys went to dealers and found parts that went all the way in. If these stuck out 1/4" I wouldn't consider using them. I've comparted the old with the new and there isn't a visable differenence.

Thanks for your help,
Mike
__________________
'78 911SC Targa (SCWDP member #17)
'74 MGB (one owner)
Pickup
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
2013 VW Golf TDI
Old 12-04-2007, 07:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Never left, but not right
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 29,994
I've only been there on those pins a couple of times, but seems to me that the angle of the grind is very important in that there is 100% contact with the shaft of the ball joint and that the pin is inserted to its maximum strength position. I know that the BJ can be rotated to facilitate this, but is there any way of double checking the alignment? I'd say it might be a good idea to use thread locker on the nut just in case the BJ moves a couple of degrees and it would be a further good idea to go back and check the torque on the nut after a few drives.

Just thinking out loud here....
Old 12-04-2007, 10:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,690
only thing I want to add is when you replace the cartridges you also need to check the orientation of the roll pin in the strut housing. I vaguely recall that if you were to install them wrong, the pin is not as strong and can snap. I think the rollpin seam faces to the back, but you need to verify this detail 100%, as it is an important safety issue. The rollpin is the small sheetmetal pin that holds the cartridge in place, not the wedge pin that holds the balljoint and strut together. Good luck.
Old 12-04-2007, 11:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to morrisjm1 Send a message via Yahoo to morrisjm1
Thanks Milt and rusnak.

Milt--I'll do as you suggest. When you look a the new pin vice the old pin, the angle of the taper appears to be the same. When you place the new pin in contact with the BJ, it make contact on all surfaces when you slide the pin against the BJ. While it does appear that, the angle is the same, it looks like taper is not cut as deeply into the pin, by a very, very small amount. So I think, that the pin's taper, is in full contact with the BJ, but because it isn't cut as deeply, the pin won't go all the way in. I'll take to out again and check it again just to be sure.

rusnak--Thanks for the heads up. There is a good picture of that in Wayne's 101 book. Currently, my inserts are on a tour of the western US in a UPS truck. Maybe they'll get here tomorrow--three days late.

Thanks again,
Mike
__________________
'78 911SC Targa (SCWDP member #17)
'74 MGB (one owner)
Pickup
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
2013 VW Golf TDI
Old 12-04-2007, 11:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
theclaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ChicagoLand
Posts: 1,280
There are "V" shaped pins and "U" shaped pins. I banged on mine until I discovered that I was trying to fit a "U" shaped peg into a "V" shaped hole. As long as you don't have that issue, try letting them sit in the freezer overnite like you would a bearing. That might contract the pin enough to get it to go in all the way.
__________________
'84 Carrera (recently sold )
'67 MB 250SL
A few Italian motorcycles
......and a minivan for the crew
Old 12-04-2007, 05:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Noel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Greater Boston
Posts: 1,412
Mine stuck out a bit like this when I replaced everything on mine. Never had an issue wiht them loosing, etc over the last four years since the rebuild. THis includes a lot of track driving.
__________________
1980 Porsche 911SC w/ -22mm/28mm Torsion Bars | Custom Valved Bilsteins | 22mm/21mm Carrera Sway Bars | Elephant Poly/Bronze Bushings | Carrera Brakes | AJ-USA Brake Cooling | Carrera Oil Cooler w/ Fan | Elephant Strut Brace | Oh, and no ABS or PSM or A/C
Old 12-05-2007, 06:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Puyallup WA
Posts: 126
Send a message via AIM to morrisjm1 Send a message via Yahoo to morrisjm1
Thanks. I'm going to go with them as is, and check them frequently. Right now, I trying to get the big nut off the top of the strut.
__________________
'78 911SC Targa (SCWDP member #17)
'74 MGB (one owner)
Pickup
2013 Ford Explorer Sport
2013 VW Golf TDI
Old 12-05-2007, 06:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:32 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.