Does your mechanic charge for Oil Change and Valve Adjust?

[alf]

Is it reasonable for a mechanic to charge for the labor for an oil change along with the labor for a valve adjust? Seems like double dipping to me.

[Car Guru]

What's involved with a valve adjust? I used to work as an insurance adjuster and from my experience with any shop I've ever been in the mechanics generally won't turn a wrench for free? After all that's how the tech puts food on his table, he won't make a dime off the oil the shop charged you for so It's only fair.

-Ryan

[the]

Why? The mechanic can adjust the valves without changing the oil. So why would he change it if he isn't going to get paid to change it.

[john walker's workshop]

you can adjust the valves without an oil change by tipping the car to one side and doing the one side, buttoning it up and then tip it the other way, etc, but who the heck is going to do that at a shop? oil drained from tank and engine, valve adjust, button up, refill. one job, one price.

[SandyI]

Any mechanic charges for parts + his labor. But if he's charging you for time not spent on your car, then you have a legit complaint. How much time is he charging you for the oil change + valve adjustment?

[dshepp806]

EXACTLY what I've heard (i.e.,: learned) from P-wrenches......just plan to have the valves done when it's time for the oil change...even if not the case, oil's cheap (relatively). I've not seen a shop that prefers to do V/adj's and save oil....?...! Although I'm sure there exists some who would meet a client's specific requests.

If my Wrench prefers to do it his way, I've learned that it's OK with me....

I do ALL of my (frequent) oil changes but have resolved the "wrist feel" (valves) to the pros.
I just plan on having the oil changed during the same period ( as JW suggested), me providing all parts. In fact, that's the ONLY time the Wrench gets to do the oil change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (funny). I joke about having my torque wrench in the bonnet for the crankcase and oil tank bolts, should he have need for them........! They just turn around laughing at my "analness"....but certainly "getting" my point (which is my passion for caring of this car and wanting things done perfectly)...they do seem to respect that, as it seems to be their goal, as well. Somehow, I think my guys would think it a bit much to ask to keep the oil in for a V/adj........

Best,,

[84_Carrera]

Filter change, time to refill maybe? But yeah, I consider it all one thing too.

[EarlyPorsche]

I wouldn't complain unless you want to risk a lower than perfect job next time. If he charged you $300 for valve adjustment or $250 for adjustment and $50 for oil change you would not complain. I would just let the shop do as they are doing unless it is grossly incorrect.

[Esel Mann]

Please consider the total labor cost (valve adjustment labor and oil change labor) plus the $/hour labor charge as both will really tell you the story. Valve adjustments typically run in a certain price range. I recall mention a while back the range was something around $200 - $400 for total labor on a valve adjustment.

I mention this because perhaps your mechanic/shop is simply itemizing the labor? For example, looking at one of my invoices I see that my mechanic/shop charged me $187.50 labor for the valve adjustment and $37.50 labor for the oil change. The total, $225.00, works out to about 2.5 - 3 hours labor. This amount of time is within spec for a valve adjustment and so is reasonable.

Now why did my mechanic/shop (and possibly other shops) decide to itemize such a job? Who knows. They're mechanics, not accountants! I'm sure the decision to sum total or itemize changes from day to day, customer to customer depending as well on who is doing the work and who is filling out the invoice and who filled out the work order.

The key metric here and what you perhaps need to consider is for the total $$$ spent in labor, does the resulting total time for labor coincide with the amount of time to perform a valve adjustment?

If no, then it is unreasonable. It could very well be an error. Again the person taking the work order is not always the same person doing the work, is not always the same person generating the bill!

If yes, then it is reasonable!


Regards,
Carlton

[gerrygug]

I'm new to the game having just purchased an 84 Carrera. When inquiring about a valve adjustment, the shop owner quoted $340.00 for a valve adjustment including an oil change and filter. Not sure how the labor breaks out, but the cost seemed reasonable if the labor for the valve adjustment is 2-3 hours.

[Britwrench]

Valve adjustment is part of the 15K service, which includes the oil and filter change.
It does, as other have posted, depends on how the labor is charged out. Some "menu" prices includes some work, but not others:
30K service on 944 with (or without) timing belt replacement. The belt has to be checked and
adjusted every 15k so the labor for removing the covers and belt adjustment needs to be taken off the service time when the belts are replaced.

[zotman72]

Geez guys, this is pretty simple DIY stuff. Figure it out, and put your hard earned money towards something performance tangible for your Porsche such as new monoballs, plugs, etc. I can do my valve adjustments and oil change in less than hour. YMMV

[Esel Mann]

Yes Zotman72,

YMMV is so true! I would certainly enjoy being able to perform such a task myself, even in a days time!

I can say that I did attempt to adjust the valves. Once. I spent an entire weekend on my back under the 911 trying to do so. I was unsuccessful. I did manage to at least get it back to a point where I could drive it to my mechanic.

What I found is that the procedure is unfortunately too "feel good". Being an engineer and comfortable around all things mechanical or electrical (except the 911), I do not deal well with "feel good". My training is it either is/isn't, black/white, pass/fail and my favorite, on/off! The procedure goes to the trouble to create a special tool for establishing clearance (that ever popular clearance gauge). Then they go to the trouble of trying to explain how the tool should "feel". Dammit it's a clearance tool and it's not an art class! It shouldn't "feel". It either passes or fails. Yes I didn't manage to become one with the 911 to develop the "feel". Imagine trying to properly torque down a bolt or nut and use "feel".

Sorry, but it's one aspect of the Porsche which pisses me off. Perhaps its one area where art crept into the science? In all my other dealings with German engineering everything is do (a) then (b) then (c), etc. Nowhere is there a "feel", it either is or isn't.

Ye I do have valve adjustment envy

So, I leave valve adjustment to the mechanic who's done more of them and has a better "feel".


Regards,
Carlton, as in "Hi I'm Carlton and I have valve adjustment impotence"

[old man neri]

Originally Posted by Esel Mann

Yes Zotman72,

My training is it either is/isn't, black/white, pass/fail and my favorite, on/off!

Back side method. This method is a pass/fail method.

[Hard-Deck]

Dammit it's a clearance tool and it's not an art class! It shouldn't "feel". It either passes or fails.

That's the reason to learn the backside method. Go/No-go

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by zotman72

Geez guys, this is pretty simple DIY stuff. Figure it out, and put your hard earned money towards something performance tangible for your Porsche such as new monoballs, plugs, etc. I can do my valve adjustments and oil change in less than hour. YMMV

Isn't 'pretty simple stuff' a relative term?
Hank Williams wrote "I'm So Lonesome I Could Die" in 10 minutes sitting in a record company's office, pretty simple stuff.
I myself can trouble shoot an $18 million dollar paint system, pretty simple stuff.
Would I like to be able to adjust my own valves? Absolutely. Can I? Nope. If I had the opportunity to work with someone that could teach me I certainly would take them up on the offer. The point being we all have 'talents' or 'experience' in areas that may not be mechanical.

[Esel Mann]

old mann neri, snapper33,

I read the link. The backside method is absolutely wonderful!!! Go-no go, thereby leaving feel where it belongs, in the bedroom.

Using the two sizes in clearance gauge is exactly what I would expect would be needed in order to properly set a clearance.

Thank you for sharing that and thanks to the author who wrote the article. There is hope once again in the land of 911's.



Regards,
Carlton

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by Esel Mann

old mann neri, snapper33,

I read the link. The backside method is absolutely wonderful!!! Go-no go, thereby leaving feel where it belongs, in the bedroom.

Using the two sizes in clearance gauge is exactly what I would expect would be needed in order to properly set a clearance.

Thank you for sharing that and thanks to the author who wrote the article. There is hope once again in the land of 911's.



Regards,
Carlton

That's the beauty of Pelican, we're here to help each other.

And here's a little hint that I learned: Use the .003 gauge and tighten the screw until it's just snug on the gauge, then remove the gauge and turn the screw just a "hair" tighter and lock the nut. then check with the go/no-go gauge. Keep your feelers lubed with fresh oil.

[boxster03]

Yes they should charge for hourly labor and materials. It takes time to adj. the valves and it takes time to change the oil. You use nearly 12 qtrs of oil and that is not free these days and a filter and 2 new o ring seals. You also have to dispose of the oil but that is a govt. thing. So I think it is reasonable to pay for the time and labor associated with both. Not sure why you would think otherwise IMO

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by alf

Does your mechanic charge for Oil Change and Valve Adjust?

My mechanic charges me for his mortgage payment, or boat payment, depending on the time of month I visit...