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959 Gruppe B "Study"

Even Porsche design stumbled a bit before getting the design right. These pics came from the Porsche Museum (these were shamelessly ripped off another site.)









Nice exhaust tips, tho!

To see all the pics from the museum:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=58136

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=58135

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=58340

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=58339
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:12 PM
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Right - that looks like one of the original prototype or concept cars that they displayed when they announced production. I think the 959 looks great in person (it doesn't seem to photograph too well), but the *best* looking derivative has got to be the 961 - one of Porsche's best ever looking race cars...

-Wayne
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:54 PM
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Wayne I am with you on the 961 thing, I know people throw tons of words at 959 replicas, but man i wish i had the 961 body work to build a car, Kevin
Old 12-21-2007, 10:36 PM
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So what is wrong about that car Bob ? It looks awesome ! Wayne i,ve seen one in person and they are impressive cars yes. But they look great in pictures too i was suprised to hear that some people here don,t like the 959 or even call it ugly.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:46 PM
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Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. In the case of the 959, it definitely looked better in 961 guise than road car... the epitome of the brutal, non-nonsense Porsche of the 70's and 80's

Can you see todays latte-sippers at Porsche ever turning the Cayman into something like this? Doubt it.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:20 AM
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I'm with Ed. That Gruppe B car is beautiful! I love how everything appeared to be so simple and clean.

Rick, for some reason, the links aren't working for me.
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Last edited by 911 in SC; 12-22-2007 at 05:56 AM..
Old 12-22-2007, 05:52 AM
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I love the pipes ( they look MEAN AS HELL ) on the pearl white prototype in Stuttgart.. I was all over that car in 05.. I have pictures from under the car every where.. it had wood blocks under it when I was there.. maybe the adjustable suspension was failing and it had to be held up by the wooden blocks..
Old 12-22-2007, 06:14 AM
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I've always believed that some colors complement the styling of a car better than others, especially in photos.
For example, a black 911 looks far better than a black Pantera.
My favorite color for a 959 is red. The 961 looks spectacular in white.
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:20 AM
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My guess on the wood blocks (from most likely to least likely guess):

- Transfer weight of the vehicle from the tires to the wood blocks. Much like what one does for example when storing a vehicle over winter. Tires doe not like weight placed on them statically for prolonged periods. They develop flat spots and warped sidewalls when left static with weight over long periods. I have even heard this happening in some cases where the weight is simply tire and rim its on!

- Eliminate need to maintain tire pressure. Tires do leak air over time. The rate of leakage seems to be a function of tire make, model, year, and pressure. By putting the weight of the vehicle on the wood blocks, the tires will simply hold their shape and not require periodic pressure maintenance.

- Theft. With the tires not making true contact to the ground the vehicle is goind nowhere fast until the one or more of the wood blocks is removed. I say at least one because wasn't the 959 all wheel drive? Thus one tire making true contact would possibly be sufficient to move the vehicle off the remaining wood blocks. Perhaps this is enough to discourage all but the most motivated of car thief.

- Creates a question in search of an answer.....


Regards,
Carlton
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicersr View Post
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. In the case of the 959, it definitely looked better in 961 guise than road car... the epitome of the brutal, non-nonsense Porsche of the 70's and 80's
I love the 961, I wish they made more of them!
Old 12-22-2007, 06:51 AM
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I also loved the 959 concept car...I think the lines work really well. Porsche should have entered the 961 in the Trans Am & IMSA series to compete against the Quattros...that would have been fun to watch.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:21 AM
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I have pictures from under the car every where.
Rory can you post a few of the under car pictures please ? maybe Wayne can make some too so we can compare what made it on the production car ? My 959 is in storage and hard to reach
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netspeed View Post
I also loved the 959 concept car...I think the lines work really well. Porsche should have entered the 961 in the Trans Am & IMSA series to compete against the Quattros...that would have been fun to watch.
This was a time when the factory built bad-ass cars and counted the beans later... it was just too expensive ($325,000) for privateers to consider at a time when you could get the cheaper and more competitive overall 962.

Interestingly, the only race footage i could find was an in-car clip of the last minutes of the 961, the factory 1987 Lemans entry, as it crashed and burned to the ground at the hands of Kees Nierop! Looks like he had a blow-out, which supposedly happened more than once on this car with 4WD.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8WmwIwoNeow

The car sounds wicked before the crash. Anyone know if this was the only 961 produced?
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Old 12-22-2007, 12:12 PM
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I've always thought that the Gruppe B Studie car was a more successful design than the production car. I think that the road version is a little "clunky" in comparison (no offense Wayne), just look at the headlight surrounds. I guess this shouldn't be surprising as the show cars don't have the same regulatory design constraints that the production cars end up with.

The original Boxster concept car is another good example of a beautiful idea that was disappointingly watered down and bloated by the time it reached production.
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Old 12-22-2007, 02:07 PM
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for the Boxster, it turns out that they simply couldn't fit the radiators in there.

I agree the concept is nicer looking - but it was not a running prototype -- in fact, it didn't even have a motor in it -- they pushed it down the track for the photos you see.

Maybe they could have used custom-made curved radiators... but then it would have cost a lot more.
Old 12-22-2007, 02:52 PM
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Anyone know if this was the only 961 produced?
An older friend of mine who is Porsche nut had just describe the 961 to me after I showed him pictures of Waynes car. He mentiond that the 961 was a one and only model.
Old 12-22-2007, 08:30 PM
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Sorry, try these links instead:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58136

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58135

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58340

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58339
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Old 12-22-2007, 08:45 PM
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Interesting. It has the tire pressure monitor gauge, and an odd-looking 4WD gauge on the right. Also something weird looking in front of the shifter...

I read somewhere that Porsche was going to produce 20 961s, but in reality, I believe that they only made one car. The one that burned was reconstructed and is now supposedly in the Porsche museum somewhere.

-Wayne

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Old 12-22-2007, 11:55 PM
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Cool post thanks.
Not that long ago I was at the factory with full visit and saw the gruppe B car, it is the same paint as my 85 911
Cheers Steve.
Old 12-23-2007, 01:19 AM
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Thanks Rick. Links work great. Man, what great pictures!

Mike
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Old 12-23-2007, 05:05 AM
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