Help! Frozen nut has defeated me.
 

I can't get my external oil thermostat off - I'm using up cans of PB, repeated heating with my propane torch. I don't want to cut it off. Are there any other tips?

how many days have you been using the pb Blaster?

I was trying to find a way to bust your balls but have you tried a 'nut splitter'

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=2226&itemType=PRODUCT

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199231309.jpg

I spent three days getting two nuts off mine. Alternating penetrant, hammer blows, and heat. They did finally come off without destroying the threads. Mind you, this is on the bench, after tearing the entire oil cooler system out of the car.

If you don't mind re-brazing the ends onto your lines and you can find the correct compression fitting nuts (Chuck Moreland can probably supply them), you can just carefully cut the existing nuts off. I did this on a line that was already destroyed anyway.

Two days with liquid wrench, then switched to PB yesterday. Got about 4 cycles of soak in PB, heat nut, bang nut with chisel. Should I just keep going?

Don't need that fancy tool - if I decide to sacrifice my nuts I'll just cut'm off like a man.

This is what I was attemping to avoid - it doesn't seem like getting the oil lines off the engine and tank would be any easier - am I doomed to try this with all still on the car?

Heh...the lines at the engine and tank usually seem to be coated with nice oily grime. Nature's penetrating oil. Never had a problem getting these off.

I'm just sayin' - whaling away with a hammer is much easier with no shiny smooth quarterpanels nearby...

Why are you removing the thermostat?

get a friend to counterhold and attach a 3 foot pipe to the end of your wrench. worked like a charm for me.

This is a sure-fire way to take the threads off the soft aluminum thermostat...

I had troubles with mine using pb and heat and a pipe wrench. Got one off and gave up on the other. Soaked it in pb overnight and it came right off no problem the next day.

You need one of those stripped nut removers. It looks like a socket except the inside has these little blades that bite into whatever's left of the nut. This is just a picture from Google but you can get it at any hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/358...ertoolsit2.jpg

Well I did heat it and soak it in PB Blaster as well first. It was a last resort. He had already done that so I didn't mention it.

I tried the PB Blaster for three days along with heat....no good at the thermostat. The other ends of the oil lines came off easy. Ended up cutting the nuts off with a dremel...being careful to not damage the threads. Was replacing the lines anyways.

Maybe you're right. It just looks like it would be hard to get ahold of the engine inlet oil line to prevent twisting it. Decided I must check the operation of the external thermostat in effort to chase down cooling issues.

heat and an air hammer and chisel bit. the bit bites into the side of the nut just before one of the points and starts it turning. finish with a 36mm wrench. if the nut is bonded to the aluminum threads, and takes them with it, there's not much you can do about it, other than wish you had split the nut with a cut-off disc and saved the t/stat. most of them come off ok this way, but you need air and the tool. i have a 36mm snap-on round style crow foot tool that's helpfiul on the inside nut where there's no room for a wrench.

Ah ha - ok, slow down. You probably don't need to pull the thermostat to check function. When the engine warms up, you should hear some gurgling as the oil passes through the lines. The lines should also heat up. If you have access to a pyrometer, you can also shoot the lines to get a temp reading.

I had a similar issue with my 2.7. Could NOT figure out why it was overheating - under all conditions. Even cruising in cool weather would cause the temp needle to steadily climb into the "too damn hot" zone. Finally tore the engine apart and found heads with completely shot valve guides and valves. The heads were trapping heat in the engine. Strange, because the engine was not at all smoky. Hopefully this is not the case in your engine - I'm currently about $4k into the rebuild and counting...

Soak it with KROIL with a few days. It makes PB look like water. Next try heat. Then try the nut splitter. Lastly the chisel.

ninesixfour, that is a great tool set, but those are not going to help here.

what about slicing them with a dremel tool?

try JWW's plan last and pay careful attention to the part near the word "Wish"!

if you have time, yes, I'd switch to Kroil but the imp. thing is to keep tapping or smacking the nut with a metal hammer - the shock will loosen the crud and help the penetrant, er, penetrate. No guarantees. But if it was me, I'd do that for 3 days or so before giving up & I'd include at least 200 hammer taps/smacks.

next, I'd try some fairly hard wrenching - trying not to exceed the FUBAR limit (set by Al in this case)

next, I'd probably cut the sucker off...

Good Luck!

This is why people put anti-seize on these threads before re-assembly.

C'mon! Be a real man! :eek:
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thu...usty_blade.jpg

Randy

I don't think you found your problem. "The heads were trapping heat in the engine"? HUH? Maka no sensa to me. If I am wrong I'd appreciate someone educating me on how this can be..

There is something very wrong about the fact that you found this picture and put it into this context. Perhaps you should consider a mental health professional before we read about you in the news. :) ;)

Not to get too far off topic - but 911 heads are designed to transfer heat from the combustion process out of the combustion chamber and into the heads. Heat passes through the valves and transfers to the head through the guides and seats. If the clearance between the valve & guide/seat becomes too great, heat cannot pass into the aluminum casting (where it is cooled by the airflow) efficiently.

My engine was getting so hot that it was losing significant amounts of power when it got up there - like nearly 25% loss of power according to my butt dyno.

Not this time! Am making all the cooling mods I can get my hands on during the rebuild...

Still doesnt make sense to me.. but ok.. anyway.. back to the nutcracker thread.. ;)

The dremel tool and a set of diamond edge cut off wheels is the trick. Just slice the nut in a couple of places, not all the way to the threads though, and then just use a small chisel to open the nut. It will just spin off at that point.

It takes a while, but the local Princess Auto (Canuck equivalent of Harbor Tools) sells a 3 pack of diamond dusted cut off wheels for about 8 bucks (or $693.50 American at current exchange rates) and they slice through quite easily.....

Dennis

Thanks for all the input (except for the rusty butterknife:eek:)

I may in fact give up. Taking the tstat off was just one of many things I'm doing in an effort to diagnois high temps. Everything I can do to diagnois tstat with it on the car says it's actually OK - but the only way to be sure is to get it out, if getting it out were easier it might be worth the effort, but based on the probability that it's ok - and that I'll ruin it or something else in the process.... I think I should just stop.

Cooling issues can be really frustrating. Take a look through the archives, there are some REALLY good threads. If none of those help, start a new thread. I agree, ditch removing the 'stat (for now).

Did the car ever cool well, or has there been a recent change in your operating temps?

Ducman,
Maybe I missed the post where you removed the entire thermostat and oil lines from the vehicle. Removing the cooler lines from the thermostat on the vehicle is a difficult job due to the aforementioned corrosion and the limited access to work angles.

Dropping the entire systems doesn't take long. On the bench or ground, there's easy access for any manner of removal suggested, either by cutting the oil line fitting with a Dremel or equivalent or using heat with Kroil or PB Blaster and a couple of wrenches and 3 foot handles.

However, your latest assessment of your heating issues is correct. I'd step back and think this through and confirm the problem is not something else, then proceed. For example, if the supply the line to the cooler is cold or at least not hot, that would indicate partial or full blockage (bypass) at the thermostat. Check the easy stuff first (debris in engine, slipping drive belt, incorrect timing, incorrect heat range spark plugs, etc.).

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

I agree w/Sherwood - definitely drop the the thing as a unit before doing anything more drastic.

If the cooler lines under the passenger-side rocker got hot, then that thermostat is probably not your problem. The first thing I'd check is the engine-mounted cooler. That is your first line of defense.

As always, listen to John. Not listening to John, which I have done a couple of times, is a mistake.

When I changed my lines, I fought with those nuts and eventually won. I used copious amounts of Maltby's penetrant over several days. I used heat. I wedged a block of wood between the wheelwell and the thermostat, to help hold it steady. I probably also used a LARGE channel-lock to help hold it still. It came off.

Stuck nuts!...............
 

I did this job a while back. I pulled the entire assembly off the car and then made this wrench to remove the stuck nuts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199315896.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1199315923.jpg

It is made out of a piece of 1/2" thick steel with the hex cut out with a dremel tool and finished with a sharp file! It has enough mass to transfer the hammer blow effectively to the nut. A few whacks with a large ballpeen hammer and off they came!

Fred,
That would be the ultimate flare-nut wrench. Drilled holes for lightness? :)

I was happily successful with the Porsche oil line wrenches and lengthy pipe extensions. For future DIYers, don't forget to apply copious amounts of anti-seize on the delicate al. threads before reassembly. Apparently, the factory fell short in this area.

Sherwood

Would it be better to try an oxy/acetylene torch on those threads? I am just thinking out loud for future reference. I used to use a propane torch but one day I saw the light with oxy/acetylene and haven't met a stuck bolt or nut since.

Yes, but not on the car as some parts are combustible in nature. However, some will inevitably try.

Sherwood