1969 911T doesn't start...suggestions?

[wreckah]

hi guys,

i'm trying to find out why our P911T from 1969 (weber carbed) doesn't start anymore.

Here's a list of things done to the car recently to get a better idea.

- opened up complete rear (engine bay) wiring loom to repair a rear light shortcut. Found some naked wires, and a broken relay switch. Rest looked fine. Mounted everything up like before and all is good except for strange starting behaviour: the car cranks and cranks but only catches when i let the key go back to 'on' position' So there's only ignition right at the split second that the key goes back from cranking into 'on' position'.

- swapped our engine for a completely revised one (in repair shop). Engine runs like a dream, like a little swiss clock. Starting behaviour stays strange. Our repair man suggests taking a look at the ignition switch.

- opened up the complete ignition switch, and found nothing broken or worn. Cleaned everything up and mounted it back in the car. (it's just hanging from the wires at the moment, not mounted in the dash yet.

- charged the two batteries fully. Both got the green light from my charger so they're good.

Now the car won't start at all anymore. CDI makes noise, fuel pump works, startmotor cranks, but no ignition.

Where should i start looking? I've already tried swapping the coils (have one spare lying around), but no change. Any suggestions? Should i take out the whole wiring loom again and inspect for bad grounds etc...?

i spent quite some time reading about CDI and coils on this forum but i'm too novice to try and bench test those...
are there any relays that can break and make the car not start?

thanks alot for your help!
cheers,
Jan

[calling911]

I would junk it.. I'll be by and pick it for you for free and I will "dispose" of it.

Seriously.. pull a plug and check for spark.. you havent mentioned that you did that yet.

Originally Posted by wreckah

hi guys,

i'm trying to find out why our P911T from 1969 (weber carbed) doesn't start anymore.

Here's a list of things done to the car recently to get a better idea.

- opened up complete rear (engine bay) wiring loom to repair a rear light shortcut. Found some naked wires, and a broken relay switch. Rest looked fine. Mounted everything up like before and all is good except for strange starting behaviour: the car cranks and cranks but only catches when i let the key go back to 'on' position' So there's only ignition right at the split second that the key goes back from cranking into 'on' position'.

- swapped our engine for a completely revised one (in repair shop). Engine runs like a dream, like a little swiss clock. Starting behaviour stays strange. Our repair man suggests taking a look at the ignition switch.

- opened up the complete ignition switch, and found nothing broken or worn. Cleaned everything up and mounted it back in the car. (it's just hanging from the wires at the moment, not mounted in the dash yet.

- charged the two batteries fully. Both got the green light from my charger so they're good.

Now the car won't start at all anymore. CDI makes noise, fuel pump works, startmotor cranks, but no ignition.

Where should i start looking? I've already tried swapping the coils (have one spare lying around), but no change. Any suggestions? Should i take out the whole wiring loom again and inspect for bad grounds etc...?

i spent quite some time reading about CDI and coils on this forum but i'm too novice to try and bench test those...
are there any relays that can break and make the car not start?

thanks alot for your help!
cheers,
Jan

[wreckah]

nope, haven't doen that yet...too dark now, will try tomorrow

cheers, Jan

[calling911]

Originally Posted by wreckah

nope, haven't doen that yet...too dark now, will try tomorrow

cheers, Jan

Too dark? Get your flashlight out and get on it! This is a good time to see if you have any internal arcing too.. can someone turn in over while someone watches the engine bay? Look for arcs....

or, check the plug in the morning.. you gotta know if it has spark.. if it does then check for fuel delivery..

[mjshira]

sounds like a ground issue maybe. recommend you check the common ground in the left rear of the engine bay.

[gigem75]

might have knocked the middle of the three fuses loose. The ones on the left side of engine bay by the cdi modules. Happened to me once.

[wreckah]

mjshira: maybe, i will loosen it once more, and clean up the whole area. There's about 8 or 9 ground cables going to that point.

gigem75: it's only a 2-fuse box on this model, and they're both good. We've had a lot of blown fuses on this car in the past, so i'm used to checking them

Is there a relay in the startersystem that could have gone bad? I hear one clicking from underneath the dash just as i turn the key to crank the engine. But i guess if it's clicking, it must be still OK.

[wreckah]

just checked this morning,

no spark at spark plugs.

[gungadin]

Here's an easy one to try.
Maybe the points aren't opening
I don't think you will get spark if the points are closed up.

[911quest]

Broken relay switch? Where is this switch located? try unplugging it and see if it starts.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "the car cranks and cranks but only catches when i let the key go back to 'on' position' So there's only ignition right at the split second that the key goes back from cranking into 'on' position'. "
__________________

That indicates to me the ignition 'switch' may be starting to fail.

That would also produce NO SPARK at the plugs.


QUOTE: "Is there a relay in the startersystem that could have gone bad? I hear one clicking from underneath the dash just as i turn the key to crank the engine. But i guess if it's clicking, it must be still OK."
__________________

I know of no such relay (under the dash) of a 1969 that is in the ignition circuit.

[wreckah]

i took out the whole rear wiring loom again, and the panel, and searched for broken wires and bad grounds, but everything seems OK. i've changed a couple of relays around, but to no avail.

the batteries are recharging now, because of the cranking they were almost flat again.

can i simply bypass the igintion switch to rule it out as a possible culprit?
- connect the power wire for the CDI, and then connect the wire for the starter? or is this a really bad idea?

cheers, and thanks,
jan

[Mo_Gearhead]

Go to auto store and get a push button 'remote starter'. Cheap, two leads and a button (or fabricate your own?)

Hook remote starter to hot 12v source and starter motor bendix, leave ignition switch fully wired ... and 'ON'.

Try that, check for spark at plug(s) while cranking.

With ignition switch in 'ON' position, you should have 12v at the fuse panel in the engine compartment and at the coil.

Report back.

[wreckah]

alright,

will try that tomorrow first thing. i've got a switch and some wire, no prob. Where do i connect to the starter solenoid? is that underneath the car at the starter itself?

cheers, jan

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "..the starter solenoid? is that underneath the car at the starter itself?"
_______________
Yes, the same place where the small wire attaches to the bendix/solenoid.
You are (in effect) just wiring around the 'start position' of the ignition switch.

If you leave the ignition switch ON and crank with the remote button you can check for spark. If none ...then you will have to start tracing backwards to find the voltage 'open point'. Wiring, points/ rotor, CD box ...etc.

[gigem75]

I had a similiar problem, sort of.... Mine is a 70T weber, the wiring harness that connects to the left side of the engine compartment has about 10? connectors in it. One of them had backed out and was not making contact resulting in no spark. Might check that all of the ten or however many are seated all the way.

[wreckah]

ok, i've bridged the starter, no worky, so it's not the ignition switch;

i'll check the dist point, coil, etc...now

[wreckah]

points are ok,

how do i check the coil without harming the CDI?

[Mo_Gearhead]

You mentioned (above) you had an extra coil and had swapped that...no change? So I think you are chasing a dead horse there, coil not the problem.

Do you have a wiring schematic for your car? If not, do a search here, I think they have been posted before.

Time to start chasing down the wiring to find where you do not have 12V ...but should have.

[Arctic Rat]

Just my 2Cnts, but start simple. Engines really only need four things to run

Air, Fuel, Compression and Spark.

See which one you don't have and work on that system.

Best of luck
Joe