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-   -   Family member attacks thermostat: BAD NEWS! (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/387043-family-member-attacks-thermostat-bad-news.html)

dshepp806 01-12-2008 04:07 PM

Family member attacks thermostat: BAD NEWS!
 
Have spent the past few weeks attacking any/all leak points on my "89, stock, Coupe. (I sure wish I could learn to arrange the events so that I don't have to take everything apart each time!). Last weekend, she had a few vacuum lines chaged out, as well as all crankcase hoses.....AFM was removed and cleaned, as was the ICV...hoses good to go! I cleaned the top of the engine so that I may watch the area for any leaks. Today (at the end of a tank dosed with Swepco) she rx'd a new fuel filter. Looked at the engine top and there appeared to be a VERY small area relating to the Oil switch...Having all the parts, I indulged the project and decided, as well, to change oue the thermostat Oring while I was there,..ALL work done from the top....contortion requirements exist, but it's a very doable task(s).

As I'm cleaning up the area before removing the warning light switch, as well as the thermo area.... my 2 nephews stop by for a vist (one-17, the other-19 yrs. old). They're very much in to cars,..do a bit of work themselves (one races Karts,..). They always been interested in my car, enjoy riding in it,..with one having driven' it a couple of times. They even helped me work on it at times,..mostly a learning experience for them....good kids.

I get the switch out with mucho fighting. I believe the PO's wrench was a frikin gorilla...seriously. First time I did the oil change, I couldn't believe the torque found on the 2 bolts. Being a torque freak, during the year I've had her, I've noticed areas that I work in where I would discover much higher then normal torques having been previously applied (and subsequently corrected). I'm torquing the switch on my digital wrench...speaking of going ahead and changing the thermostat O-ring....I get it out OK,..clean her up,..install the green Oring and drop her on the slot,....well the 19 year old is into this whole thing, watching attentively...my phone rings,..I step aside to take the call, as he asks if he could button the thermo up...I spout out the (light) foot pounds for him...telling him NOT to drop any nuts/washers! .......get into my call,...some buddies of his comes up,..I see this but not really paying attention, walking away from a very loud pristine Mustang loaded with a 351 Cleveland in it........A few minutes later, the 17 year old nephew walks up and says to me "this nut broke off, Uncle Doyle....Drew said the torque wrench was dialed in and to go for it,....I just don't understand,..I'm really sorry.":mad:

Looking down, I see that he's not holding the frikin digital dialed at 6 or so BUT MY OTHER WRENCH DIALED IN AT 26 foot pounds!! HE STRIPPED ONE OF THE BOLTS FOR THE THERMOSTAT RIGHT THE FRICK OFF:( ...I was so pissed I didn't even remove the damned thing to see how flush it broke off. (bet it's flush looking at the remnant piece...) Really tested my patience,..ultimately realizing (completely) that it was all my fault. Talk about frikin' up the evening's end.....things were going along so well,..she runs beautifally as of recent,..I'm walking around like a frikin' heroin addict as I can't get my fix right now!!!!! No way would I even crank her...:confused:

Guys,..what now?,....guess I'll need new (these):

M6 X12 stud (999-062-055-02-OEM) (possibly two, as the other survived but has had it's torque releaved,..maybe stressed now?)

fresh washers (N-0122-265-OEM) and nuts (900-076-010-02-M260).

Would you think the thermostat itself may have beed stressed in any way and would warrant replacement? (Temps have been perfect since buying it)

And finally,...how in the hey do you fix this? drilling? extraction? dental pick approach? install the new threaded stud until she bottoms? not a lot of area up there for a drill.....please don't tell me the engine has to come out/down...................



Sorry for the ramble guys,...I'm about as depressed as it gets,.. as this is the VERY FIRST time she's EVER been officially DOWN...........and on a moronic note...

Any help guidance would be appreciated....

.............Xanax time.....

Best to all,

Wayne 962 01-12-2008 04:27 PM

Is the engine in or out of the car?

-Wayne

dshepp806 01-12-2008 04:36 PM

VERY MUCH IN,,..

Thanks, Wayne,..come on,.,.give me good news,...don't you say it....

Just order the above parts list, to include a new fresh thermostat...


God I Feel Nausea coming on...



Best,

dshepp806 01-12-2008 04:37 PM

all parts from my "good-news-bearing host"....right, Wayne?

fty 01-12-2008 04:59 PM

He letting you suffer with silence...:)

Bobboloo 01-12-2008 05:16 PM

Weld a nut onto the stripped stud. Then back it out of the case before it completely cools.

You should use probably use thread locker when you put in the new stud(s).

I don't see how the thermostat could be damaged. It's a lot stronger than those little studs.

dshepp806 01-12-2008 05:40 PM

The stud if broken off (with nut attached,...broken flush with bottom of nut). I wouldn't condifer this a "stripped" stud.

I don't see where there would be anything to weld to...


What if she's cold when I go to work on her (and she will be,..as I'll not crank her)

dshepp806 01-12-2008 05:40 PM

Meant to say "the stud is (not if) broken off"

sorry...

dshepp806 01-12-2008 05:41 PM

as well,..I should broken off flush with engine case.....

Best,

john walker's workshop 01-12-2008 07:36 PM

with luck there's enough to grab with mini visegrips. rob one from the chain housing cover so you can button it up, and use a bolt in the cover until you can get a new stud.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 04:10 AM

Thanks for the reply, Juhn. You may have to expound a bit on your direction.

Assuming good luck: you're saying use mini vice grips to grab the remaining part of the broken stud (in the engine) then remove it. THEN, remove (borrow) a stud from the chain housing cover to be used at the thermostat (I assume they're the same size?) then reimstall the thermostat. .

How would I use a bolt on the chain housing cover when I would have removed (borrowed) the stud that this nut would attach to?

Man, I'm confused,..I appreciate your patience John...Guess I need to look at the drawings to better understand your directions..............

What if theyr IS NOT enough of the broken stuf to grab to? Then what?

Man, the weather looks great today for a drive.....I feel sick to my stomach thinking about it,...maybe it's not as bad as it seems........ (or not).....

Thanks for any help provided....................

My best,

DUK 01-13-2008 04:27 AM

Doyle, Grab what's left sticking up of the stud with the vise grips. Maybe spray a little penatrating oil on it and then slowly unscrew the stud out. If that doesn't work or there's not enough stud to grab take a nut close to the size of the stud and weld it to the remaining part of the stud. Then try and back it out while the stud is still warm (not red hot just warm).

Then if you get it, borrow a stud from the chain cover to use for the t-stat. Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud. Use one of the easier studs to get to, that way you can replace it later just as easy.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 04:33 AM

John,

I took a look at the parts diagram for the chain cover....

I broke an M6 X 12 stud at the thermostat (999-062-055-02-OEM) . The only M6 stud I see (on the chain cover) in the parts diagram to "borrow" is the M6 X 22 (999-062-102-02-OEM. What's the difference between these 2? Lenght? Is this the one you speak of?

As a side question to you, (and for this layman): If one decides to remove a perfectly fine stud froma case, what's the best way to get it out WITHOUT damaging the threads? If one were to clamp it with vicegrips, wouldn't you bugger up the threads? I guess the same question applies to installation of a new stud: what's the proper way to install it without damaging the threads that the nut will thread onto?

Thanks for your patience...

Best,

dshepp806 01-13-2008 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Zink (Post 3701270)
Doyle, Grab what's left sticking up of the stud with the vise grips. Maybe spray a little penatrating oil on it and then slowly unscrew the stud out. If that doesn't work or there's not enough stud to grab take a nut close to the size of the stud and weld it to the remaining part of the stud. Then try and back it out while the stud is still warm (not red hot just warm).

Then if you get it, borrow a stud from the chain cover to use for the t-stat. Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud. Use one of the easier studs to get to, that way you can replace it later just as easy.

Thanks, Duke. No welder here,..car's dead cold,...engine is in.........GEEEZE.

WHen you say " Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud", I'm not sure if I follow you. If I removed a "stud" from the cover, you're saying find a BOLT that's the same (length, threads, diameter, etc) and use that BOLT in place of the removed stud. If this is the case, why couldn't I use the same approach at the thermostat? (i.e.,: remove the broken stud and use a bolt (instead) temporarily until the new thermostat stud comes in.......?

On the other hand: what if there's nothing to grab on to at the broken thermostat stud?

If I can grab it, are you saying that I'll need heat to extract it? Like I said, the engine is in the car, and there's not a lot of room up top....I'd have to be extremely careful if I were to use a torch up top (or strip EVERYTHING off so as NOT to damage surrounding "things".)

..just trying to get the big color picture, here.

Thanks again for any/all inputs.

Best,

gsmith660 01-13-2008 07:26 AM

It's a long shot but there is a screw extraction setup that they are advertising on tv that might work for something like this would require removal of the induction system to get room but that at least would not be as intense as a full engine drop. I would heat the stud or what is left with a torch to break down any threadlocker used and give it a try. If that doesn't work then you should have enough room to get in there with a angle drill and drill it out and use a easy out on it. I would not suggest this except that it is a small stud on an alloy case that is not likely to have too much corrosion to lock the remaining stud in. All I can say bar that is BE CAREFULL if you slip you drill into soft metal and then you have a real problem. If you damage the threads in this process then you can get timesert kits from enginetech.com to put in new threads good as new.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 08:04 AM

Thanks gsmith....I'm gonna' head out now to evaluate yesterday's catastrophe..

...anything requiring drilling, etc. will (more than likely) be turned over to a pro to handle "professionally"...for now, I want to see "what's left" to grab onto........

I'm a lowly engineer who's not had to fight such issues as this (never used an extraction tool in my life)....I'll not play around where I shouldn't be playing............

...I think I now have an ulcer from this.....

I would ask again, what would be the proper way of installing a brand new stud into this area (assuming the present broken stud can be extracted). It would seem that the new stud would have threading at both ends so how would one grab onto the nut-end to install/thread the engine casing side into the case WITHOUT damaging the bolt end threads of the stud? I know this seems quite simple to many of you out there but is there a space in the middle of the new stud to grab onto?

Well,..here goes....I'll be reporting back shortly....

Thanks!

Chuck Moreland 01-13-2008 08:17 AM

Your approach will depend on how much stud is sticking out.

This would be easy if the engine was out of the car. You may have to pull it to get working room, you'll at least have to drop it down.

Remember that when the nut broke off, all the tension in the stud was relieved. That means it's basically loose in the threads.

If anything is sticking up to grip, it should be easily turned with a pliers.

If it is flush, try using a pointed center punch and a hammer. You want to position the punch at the 3 O'clock position and angled slightly such that impact from the hammer will cause the stud to back out.

Failing that, drill into the stud and back it out using a screw extractor. Ducktape over the thermostat hole to prevent filing from falling in.

gsmith660 01-13-2008 09:54 AM

Right Chuck assuming no locktite was used to hold the stud. Now more food for thought evaluate cost wise if you have a mechanic do this: you pulling the intake and having the car towed versus him pulling the intake at his probable shop rate of 80 bucks an hour and fixing the stud also you might be able to get a machinist to come to your house to do the work I did on my chevy 350. good luck hope the stud spins out with vise grips.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 10:09 AM

Thanks, Chuck.

I just removed all of the stuff on top of engine to have another look...luckily, the left side thermostat nut came loose without breaking anything (I was worried about this other side...and if the gorilla had done the same thing to it) Removed the thermostat (finding a brittly black O-ring that broke with the least tug....at least I know that this attempt was, not only in good faith, but also a needed action....the thermostat didn't appear to be related to any leaking but I bet she was on schedule to do so in the near future looking at this oring. BTW: I noticed, after installing the green oring, that there appeared to be a bit of movement of oring while seated on the thermostat (in the up/down direction). Is this to allow expansion of rubber under pressure? I would think it would fit a bit tighter?...First time I've seen a Porsche one.....This group has made it clear to make use of the Green O-rings...just a question here..

..back to the nightmare:

I DO have about 1/4 " or a bit more of the broken stud sticking out....a good thing, I guess. I'm off to the store to get a smaller vicegrip (mini?) to allow better movement within the confined space, as my larger one doesn't allow for rotation...

So, Chuck, you say that the remaining broken stud within the engine case should be quite loose at this point? I've doused her with liquid wrench for a whle now and will be applying some Kroil or PB Blaster next,..let it sit for a while then have a go at it.. No heat application here at any point,..(I'm not sure about going that route just yet. Knowing that you say it should be somewhat (loosened) by the event holds promise and pray that you're right in my case. Are there better tools to use in this repair, aside from vicegrips?

I've a new stud on order and am not yet clear on this borrowing suggestion from the chain cover. (Maybe...)..not yet clear on how to remove or install these studs and they do look a bit longer? ...maybe when I have the removed thermostat broken stud in my hand, it will be apparent....I just don't want to bugger anythreads with a vicegripping approach (Removal? yes.....! Install,..say what?) I'll get it soon...(I hope) with everyone's help.....

Here I sit in the front yard, sucking on a 2 P.M. cup of coffee,..slapping away on my (wireless)laptop,..tools everywhere,...posting to the P-group,..it's like a mobile technical support,..AS I'm under, over inside,..the car.... What's so cool is that I can fire the Camry up,...leave everything (AFM, tools, etc..) right where it is (laptop included) in the driveway,..head up to the auto store to peruse their aisles for a secret weapon...come home to find everything just as I left it...

.....trying to find positive in this nightmare?

I'll be back,,,
,,...and thanks for "tuning in to this program"...it's therapeutic for it's depressed creator..

... thanks guys,..a bunch...money's been tight around here and I don't need to hear of an engine drop in my NEAR future. Your suggested approaches may help me avoid this,......

In the meantime, the kid called to check on the status...wanted to come by and help...I told him just to stay home today,..we'll get together a bit later for a ride.....still forgiving of his oversight...

till next round,

Best

dshepp806 01-13-2008 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmith660 (Post 3701682)
Right Chuck assuming no locktite was used to hold the stud. Now more food for thought evaluate cost wise if you have a mechanic do this: you pulling the intake and having the car towed versus him pulling the intake at his probable shop rate of 80 bucks an hour and fixing the stud also you might be able to get a machinist to come to your house to do the work I did on my chevy 350. good luck hope the stud spins out with vise grips.

If I can't get it out,..what exactly will the machinist do to succeed? Would he do/use something that would require the intake to be removed? Or would he do/use something, as is? Educate me....

I can use AAA to get it to my wrench free so that's not a cost factor...what would it cost for the wrench to do it (showing up with the car, as is...intake inplace....?

You're right gsmith, I should be keeping this in the back of my mind here...and thanks for pointing it out.

I hope the bieatch spins out too.......

any tool to make this happen, aside from vicegrips?

Thanks!

3.2 CAB 01-13-2008 10:34 AM

It does not look like anyone is wanting to say, you have to drop the engine, to make the repair. I know that there is not much room, where you are needing to work, and an open flame would really be a true fire hazard. If you can determine that you do have some of the broken stud still sticking up from the surface, you might be able to get to it with small vice-grips, if not, I think that the engine has to go. Once it is dropped, you can do the fix properly. I would first try left-hand drill bits, if it does not go with them, then use an broken stud/bolt extractor. You should have plenty of time to get the proper parts to replace the broken stud. You asked how to install the new stud without damaging the new studs threads. You would want to use two nuts threaded onto the new stud, one butted up against the other, in order to be able to fully install the new stud. One nut and a jamb nut, so it locks the two nuts in place, then you can tighten the stud, after you tighten the new stud, you can then remove the jamb nut. After you get the jamb nut loose, remove it, then remove the other nut, the repair would now be complete, except for re-installing the engine. I am sorry, but I can't see that you can get this done, if the stud is flush with the surface, without dropping the engine. If you don't have any special drills, bits, etc. that you can get in there with, a drop would be needed. If you do have something that you can get to the stud with a left handed bit, that would be great, and use the best size one available, and be centered to avoid damage to the internal threads. Like I said, I don't know what specialty tools you have available, and I don't know your skill level. I wish there was an easy way to do this, but I don't think it is going to be easy, whichever way you go. Hopefully, I was making myself clear about this. Good luck!! Tony.

gsmith660 01-13-2008 10:34 AM

Since it has 1\4 inch left a machinist would put a nut on it and a quick tack on top and out the broken stud would come if you put vise grips on it and booger up the threads it could still be done just not as easy. Good luck

Bobboloo 01-13-2008 10:47 AM

I would still try welding to remove it. You are least likely to do additional damage. I've done this several times, It's quick and easy. As long as the stud isn't broken off below the surface this will work.

If the stud is broken absolutely flush then first put on a large washer with a small hole the size of the stud. Tack the washer to the stud. Then put a nut on top of the washer and tack the nut to the washer. The heat from the welding will break the bond of any thread locker. Just turn it out before it cools.

3.2 CAB 01-13-2008 10:47 AM

It took me a bit to get my first response typed, and I now see that you say you have about 1/4th in sticking out. That is GREAT NEWS!!!!! You should be able to get the smallest size of name brand, Vice-grips locked on the remaining piece of the stud which is sticking up past the surface. A lot of times when bolts or studs are twisted off, the remaining portion can be a real bear to get out, due to the excessive torquing on the threads, and it will actually be very tight in there due to thread stretching, and it just won't turn out of the hole, without mechanical help. Take your time, but it really does sound like you ducked the bullet, if you do have that much threads still showing. Good luck!! Tony.

Bobboloo 01-13-2008 10:57 AM

1/4 " Your golden. You can try the vise grips but if they don't work just weld a nut on and it will be out in minutes.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 01:02 PM

Just in fromworking on it,..no luck thus far...

3.2CAB: sorry if I was missleading,..at first. She easily has about 1/4" on the broken stud moving (possibly a bit more)....now you have me wondering about a very basic question:::::::::::::These damned studs do come out CCW=loose, right?


I tried every single vicegrip I had but could not get it to turn......the old nut will thread down over the stud but will NOT tighten at bottom,..just spin around...guess the threads are well buggered now.....

Damned good to see a few responses here from the "in the know" crowd,...so many thanks, fellas....I felt completely defeated upon dragging into the house,..but now feel cautiously optomistic after reading all of you guys' posts..
This group rocks!

I don't weld but the suggestion of tacking on a nut sure sounds like it would work and easily......
Then just use a 10MM socket to take her out, right? lefty -loosy,..right?
Does there still exist a fire hazard with welding in this area? How would you minimize the hazard (fire or others) so that one could execute a brief tack on a 10 MM nut? Seems like there would be several things to protect from a healthy (hot) spark (rubber, plastic, cloth,etc.)

Is this the only decision I have left, short of engine drop,..to weld, that is?

Thanks for hanging in there with me (Bobboloo,gsmith,3.2CAB,Chuck, Duke and JW)

I'll look for further commentary from the group......

Hopefully the shop is in agreement with all here.....Guess I could call them next and see what they say about it. Or consider having a friend's contact with welding gear drop by the house.....(cheaper)


Thanks guys,...and best to you all,..

dshepp806 01-13-2008 01:56 PM

A friend offered to bring over (tomorrow) his stud extraction set for my use....says it's worth a shot (he's a T-wrench!) Some type of socket arrangment with internal bearings that grip?
Any commnets from you guys on this partiular tool in this particular case...?


Still considering the tack welding of a blot idea,..it seems so logical.........

...now, this torch thing back there,..I gotta; think about that one,..

however it sounds like I may need heat,...unless (as someone mentioned), the heat generation of the weld spark will provide locktight heating "affect"...

oh boy,..tomorrow's another day......and waiting for parts!

Comments welcome

stevemfr 01-13-2008 02:12 PM

The heat from the welding will be more than enough to have a loctite dissolving effect. Make sure whatever you do, you cover the thermostat hole to keep the internals clean (sorry for stating the obvious, just tryin' ta help).

And don't work up an ulcer over this, t'aint worth it (although I can understand your aggravation). And no beating on family members... ;-)

dshepp806 01-13-2008 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemfr (Post 3702115)
The heat from the welding will be more than enough to have a loctite dissolving effect. Make sure whatever you do, you cover the thermostat hole to keep the internals clean (sorry for stating the obvious, just tryin' ta help).

And don't work up an ulcer over this, t'aint worth it (although I can understand your aggravation). And no beating on family members... ;-)

No worries, mate. Won't beat on any family members. I DO appreciate your help.

I will certainly pay attention to covering that hole! I had her well covered today while attempting stud removal.....maybe I'll be able to just leave the thermostat inplace BUT ROTATED AWAY from the stud when getting the tack weld done,..(when I get to that step).....

(sure would like to hear a bed time story from J.Walker as to all related commentary to my quagmire...)

Best,

gsmith660 01-13-2008 04:38 PM

I would call a guy with a mobile welder 30 sec including setup to put a good tack in there and its out.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsmith660 (Post 3702408)
I would call a guy with a mobile welder 30 sec including setup to put a good tack in there and its out.

That's what I'm seeing, too.

As to this process, gsmith,..any items to be aware of? Type of welder (weld) , gas concerns/precautions,? etc? ...?...I know nothing of this process,..I know that I'd damned well cover up as much as possible down and around the stud area...is there a way (technique?) to contain the outward sparking during welding....? I'd call a pro to do it but would want to be aware that he's versed in welding around the top of the engine...

Do those sparks maintain their heat for a while? Or does they dissipate quickly?

Now I'm having reservations of trying the extractor first and (with further bad luck) twist the damned stud off below the case level.......seems like it would be safer with the heat application to the Locktight coincident with a newly attached removal device (bolt!).....finish with torque. Nothing breaks..

Thanks, again.

Best,

gsmith660 01-13-2008 05:31 PM

The welder should be able to protect the area with fire blanket be sure and ask him about it as for weld type the best would be MIG he could even use flux core as it will just go in the trash when you get it out.

dshepp806 01-13-2008 05:50 PM

Thanks gsmith,..I'll keep you guys updated. I think I'll first check in with my P-wrench and get his take....One thing I've been successful at so far is knowing the difference between "taking care of maintenance" and "needing a P-wrench".......I don't want to frick that up..I trust the guy. On the other hand, I DO love taking care of much of the work myself, learning along the way,..saving significant amounts of $$,...I just hate to CREATE additional significant amounts of $$$ (like snapping this problematic stud beneath the caseline)...

...trying to be careful here.

Is it sufficient to tack only one side of the nut?

Thanks,

gsmith660 01-13-2008 06:38 PM

They will thread the nut on and weld right down in the middle welding the stud to the nut and then you will have a bolt that you can put a wrench on.

Fritz Peyerl 01-13-2008 06:53 PM

stud removing
 
If you get a welder to apply heat and weld the nut to the stud, Please make sure you disconect your battery. Do to the welding current, you could fry some electronic.
ALWAYS DISCONNECT BATTERY WHEN WELDING ON CAR

Fritz

gsmith660 01-13-2008 07:49 PM

Thats true disconnect your cd unit from the harness and unplug your 14 pin also and have the welder put his ground as close to the stud as possible possibly the engine lifting eye on the back of the engine. Thanks Fritz for pointing that out you would think I would point that out as all the welding I did on my car I fried the stereo. search on here for welding to see what all needs to be disconnected.

dshepp806 01-14-2008 04:06 PM

Haven't had really good luck on my search attempts for the information....

...I'm thinking of first attempting use of a stud removal tool.... My only concern is that there won't be any application of heat first,..I've been told (good source) that there's no Locktite in there on this stud but still am envisioning snapping the bloody thing off FLUSH with the damned case.....

Would this selection be more prone to my vision? Or is the same "snapping" vision still possible making use of a tac'd nut to the stud? I would guess the BIG difference is in application of HEAT?
Is this correct?
Hell,..I guess anything could happen (realistically)..

STill gotta call my wrench to get his take (piece of mind)....

Any further "welding awareness/ points of interest", while on top of a installed Porsche engine would be welcomed...

...especially as to the electrical connections/connectors,..guess you would totally isolate the DME box,.........at minimum? I understand disconnecting the battery......and ground placement for the welder......

...sounds like one had really have a pro do this,..right,..the first time.............

Thanks,

gsmith660 01-14-2008 04:26 PM

yes application of heat does many things breaks down locktite loosens corrosion expands metal easing thread tension. Just be aware that if you go the stud removal route I personally have not had good luck with those at the very least it will ruin the threads so a nut may or may not go on to go the welded route and it usually ends up with a drill and a timesert the welded nut is just too easy if you have a welder. I have not had a problem with breaking studs on my 911 but on my small blocks it has been a different story with previous mechanics using grade 3 bolts when they should have been 5 or 8.

dshepp806 01-14-2008 04:32 PM

Damned good point regarding the threads,..guess that would be quite an important consideration here,..thanks AGAIN!

patkeefe 01-14-2008 04:41 PM

Doyle, sent my 2 cents worth.
Good luck!
Pat


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