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Angry Family member attacks thermostat: BAD NEWS!

Have spent the past few weeks attacking any/all leak points on my "89, stock, Coupe. (I sure wish I could learn to arrange the events so that I don't have to take everything apart each time!). Last weekend, she had a few vacuum lines chaged out, as well as all crankcase hoses.....AFM was removed and cleaned, as was the ICV...hoses good to go! I cleaned the top of the engine so that I may watch the area for any leaks. Today (at the end of a tank dosed with Swepco) she rx'd a new fuel filter. Looked at the engine top and there appeared to be a VERY small area relating to the Oil switch...Having all the parts, I indulged the project and decided, as well, to change oue the thermostat Oring while I was there,..ALL work done from the top....contortion requirements exist, but it's a very doable task(s).

As I'm cleaning up the area before removing the warning light switch, as well as the thermo area.... my 2 nephews stop by for a vist (one-17, the other-19 yrs. old). They're very much in to cars,..do a bit of work themselves (one races Karts,..). They always been interested in my car, enjoy riding in it,..with one having driven' it a couple of times. They even helped me work on it at times,..mostly a learning experience for them....good kids.

I get the switch out with mucho fighting. I believe the PO's wrench was a frikin gorilla...seriously. First time I did the oil change, I couldn't believe the torque found on the 2 bolts. Being a torque freak, during the year I've had her, I've noticed areas that I work in where I would discover much higher then normal torques having been previously applied (and subsequently corrected). I'm torquing the switch on my digital wrench...speaking of going ahead and changing the thermostat O-ring....I get it out OK,..clean her up,..install the green Oring and drop her on the slot,....well the 19 year old is into this whole thing, watching attentively...my phone rings,..I step aside to take the call, as he asks if he could button the thermo up...I spout out the (light) foot pounds for him...telling him NOT to drop any nuts/washers! .......get into my call,...some buddies of his comes up,..I see this but not really paying attention, walking away from a very loud pristine Mustang loaded with a 351 Cleveland in it........A few minutes later, the 17 year old nephew walks up and says to me "this nut broke off, Uncle Doyle....Drew said the torque wrench was dialed in and to go for it,....I just don't understand,..I'm really sorry."

Looking down, I see that he's not holding the frikin digital dialed at 6 or so BUT MY OTHER WRENCH DIALED IN AT 26 foot pounds!! HE STRIPPED ONE OF THE BOLTS FOR THE THERMOSTAT RIGHT THE FRICK OFF ...I was so pissed I didn't even remove the damned thing to see how flush it broke off. (bet it's flush looking at the remnant piece...) Really tested my patience,..ultimately realizing (completely) that it was all my fault. Talk about frikin' up the evening's end.....things were going along so well,..she runs beautifally as of recent,..I'm walking around like a frikin' heroin addict as I can't get my fix right now!!!!! No way would I even crank her...

Guys,..what now?,....guess I'll need new (these):

M6 X12 stud (999-062-055-02-OEM) (possibly two, as the other survived but has had it's torque releaved,..maybe stressed now?)

fresh washers (N-0122-265-OEM) and nuts (900-076-010-02-M260).

Would you think the thermostat itself may have beed stressed in any way and would warrant replacement? (Temps have been perfect since buying it)

And finally,...how in the hey do you fix this? drilling? extraction? dental pick approach? install the new threaded stud until she bottoms? not a lot of area up there for a drill.....please don't tell me the engine has to come out/down...................



Sorry for the ramble guys,...I'm about as depressed as it gets,.. as this is the VERY FIRST time she's EVER been officially DOWN...........and on a moronic note...

Any help guidance would be appreciated....

.............Xanax time.....

Best to all,
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:07 PM
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VERY MUCH IN,,..

Thanks, Wayne,..come on,.,.give me good news,...don't you say it....

Just order the above parts list, to include a new fresh thermostat...


God I Feel Nausea coming on...



Best,
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:36 PM
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all parts from my "good-news-bearing host"....right, Wayne?
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:37 PM
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:59 PM
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Weld a nut onto the stripped stud. Then back it out of the case before it completely cools.

You should use probably use thread locker when you put in the new stud(s).

I don't see how the thermostat could be damaged. It's a lot stronger than those little studs.
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:16 PM
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The stud if broken off (with nut attached,...broken flush with bottom of nut). I wouldn't condifer this a "stripped" stud.

I don't see where there would be anything to weld to...


What if she's cold when I go to work on her (and she will be,..as I'll not crank her)
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:40 PM
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Meant to say "the stud is (not if) broken off"

sorry...
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:40 PM
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as well,..I should broken off flush with engine case.....

Best,
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:41 PM
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with luck there's enough to grab with mini visegrips. rob one from the chain housing cover so you can button it up, and use a bolt in the cover until you can get a new stud.
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:36 PM
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Thanks for the reply, Juhn. You may have to expound a bit on your direction.

Assuming good luck: you're saying use mini vice grips to grab the remaining part of the broken stud (in the engine) then remove it. THEN, remove (borrow) a stud from the chain housing cover to be used at the thermostat (I assume they're the same size?) then reimstall the thermostat. .

How would I use a bolt on the chain housing cover when I would have removed (borrowed) the stud that this nut would attach to?

Man, I'm confused,..I appreciate your patience John...Guess I need to look at the drawings to better understand your directions..............

What if theyr IS NOT enough of the broken stuf to grab to? Then what?

Man, the weather looks great today for a drive.....I feel sick to my stomach thinking about it,...maybe it's not as bad as it seems........ (or not).....

Thanks for any help provided....................

My best,
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:10 AM
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Doyle, Grab what's left sticking up of the stud with the vise grips. Maybe spray a little penatrating oil on it and then slowly unscrew the stud out. If that doesn't work or there's not enough stud to grab take a nut close to the size of the stud and weld it to the remaining part of the stud. Then try and back it out while the stud is still warm (not red hot just warm).

Then if you get it, borrow a stud from the chain cover to use for the t-stat. Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud. Use one of the easier studs to get to, that way you can replace it later just as easy.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:27 AM
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John,

I took a look at the parts diagram for the chain cover....

I broke an M6 X 12 stud at the thermostat (999-062-055-02-OEM) . The only M6 stud I see (on the chain cover) in the parts diagram to "borrow" is the M6 X 22 (999-062-102-02-OEM. What's the difference between these 2? Lenght? Is this the one you speak of?

As a side question to you, (and for this layman): If one decides to remove a perfectly fine stud froma case, what's the best way to get it out WITHOUT damaging the threads? If one were to clamp it with vicegrips, wouldn't you bugger up the threads? I guess the same question applies to installation of a new stud: what's the proper way to install it without damaging the threads that the nut will thread onto?

Thanks for your patience...

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Old 01-13-2008, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Zink View Post
Doyle, Grab what's left sticking up of the stud with the vise grips. Maybe spray a little penatrating oil on it and then slowly unscrew the stud out. If that doesn't work or there's not enough stud to grab take a nut close to the size of the stud and weld it to the remaining part of the stud. Then try and back it out while the stud is still warm (not red hot just warm).

Then if you get it, borrow a stud from the chain cover to use for the t-stat. Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud. Use one of the easier studs to get to, that way you can replace it later just as easy.
Thanks, Duke. No welder here,..car's dead cold,...engine is in.........GEEEZE.

WHen you say " Replace the said stud from the cover with a bolt the same length as the stud", I'm not sure if I follow you. If I removed a "stud" from the cover, you're saying find a BOLT that's the same (length, threads, diameter, etc) and use that BOLT in place of the removed stud. If this is the case, why couldn't I use the same approach at the thermostat? (i.e.,: remove the broken stud and use a bolt (instead) temporarily until the new thermostat stud comes in.......?

On the other hand: what if there's nothing to grab on to at the broken thermostat stud?

If I can grab it, are you saying that I'll need heat to extract it? Like I said, the engine is in the car, and there's not a lot of room up top....I'd have to be extremely careful if I were to use a torch up top (or strip EVERYTHING off so as NOT to damage surrounding "things".)

..just trying to get the big color picture, here.

Thanks again for any/all inputs.

Best,
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:48 AM
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It's a long shot but there is a screw extraction setup that they are advertising on tv that might work for something like this would require removal of the induction system to get room but that at least would not be as intense as a full engine drop. I would heat the stud or what is left with a torch to break down any threadlocker used and give it a try. If that doesn't work then you should have enough room to get in there with a angle drill and drill it out and use a easy out on it. I would not suggest this except that it is a small stud on an alloy case that is not likely to have too much corrosion to lock the remaining stud in. All I can say bar that is BE CAREFULL if you slip you drill into soft metal and then you have a real problem. If you damage the threads in this process then you can get timesert kits from enginetech.com to put in new threads good as new.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:26 AM
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Thanks gsmith....I'm gonna' head out now to evaluate yesterday's catastrophe..

...anything requiring drilling, etc. will (more than likely) be turned over to a pro to handle "professionally"...for now, I want to see "what's left" to grab onto........

I'm a lowly engineer who's not had to fight such issues as this (never used an extraction tool in my life)....I'll not play around where I shouldn't be playing............

...I think I now have an ulcer from this.....

I would ask again, what would be the proper way of installing a brand new stud into this area (assuming the present broken stud can be extracted). It would seem that the new stud would have threading at both ends so how would one grab onto the nut-end to install/thread the engine casing side into the case WITHOUT damaging the bolt end threads of the stud? I know this seems quite simple to many of you out there but is there a space in the middle of the new stud to grab onto?

Well,..here goes....I'll be reporting back shortly....

Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:04 AM
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Your approach will depend on how much stud is sticking out.

This would be easy if the engine was out of the car. You may have to pull it to get working room, you'll at least have to drop it down.

Remember that when the nut broke off, all the tension in the stud was relieved. That means it's basically loose in the threads.

If anything is sticking up to grip, it should be easily turned with a pliers.

If it is flush, try using a pointed center punch and a hammer. You want to position the punch at the 3 O'clock position and angled slightly such that impact from the hammer will cause the stud to back out.

Failing that, drill into the stud and back it out using a screw extractor. Ducktape over the thermostat hole to prevent filing from falling in.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:17 AM
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Right Chuck assuming no locktite was used to hold the stud. Now more food for thought evaluate cost wise if you have a mechanic do this: you pulling the intake and having the car towed versus him pulling the intake at his probable shop rate of 80 bucks an hour and fixing the stud also you might be able to get a machinist to come to your house to do the work I did on my chevy 350. good luck hope the stud spins out with vise grips.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:54 AM
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Thanks, Chuck.

I just removed all of the stuff on top of engine to have another look...luckily, the left side thermostat nut came loose without breaking anything (I was worried about this other side...and if the gorilla had done the same thing to it) Removed the thermostat (finding a brittly black O-ring that broke with the least tug....at least I know that this attempt was, not only in good faith, but also a needed action....the thermostat didn't appear to be related to any leaking but I bet she was on schedule to do so in the near future looking at this oring. BTW: I noticed, after installing the green oring, that there appeared to be a bit of movement of oring while seated on the thermostat (in the up/down direction). Is this to allow expansion of rubber under pressure? I would think it would fit a bit tighter?...First time I've seen a Porsche one.....This group has made it clear to make use of the Green O-rings...just a question here..

..back to the nightmare:

I DO have about 1/4 " or a bit more of the broken stud sticking out....a good thing, I guess. I'm off to the store to get a smaller vicegrip (mini?) to allow better movement within the confined space, as my larger one doesn't allow for rotation...

So, Chuck, you say that the remaining broken stud within the engine case should be quite loose at this point? I've doused her with liquid wrench for a whle now and will be applying some Kroil or PB Blaster next,..let it sit for a while then have a go at it.. No heat application here at any point,..(I'm not sure about going that route just yet. Knowing that you say it should be somewhat (loosened) by the event holds promise and pray that you're right in my case. Are there better tools to use in this repair, aside from vicegrips?

I've a new stud on order and am not yet clear on this borrowing suggestion from the chain cover. (Maybe...)..not yet clear on how to remove or install these studs and they do look a bit longer? ...maybe when I have the removed thermostat broken stud in my hand, it will be apparent....I just don't want to bugger anythreads with a vicegripping approach (Removal? yes.....! Install,..say what?) I'll get it soon...(I hope) with everyone's help.....

Here I sit in the front yard, sucking on a 2 P.M. cup of coffee,..slapping away on my (wireless)laptop,..tools everywhere,...posting to the P-group,..it's like a mobile technical support,..AS I'm under, over inside,..the car.... What's so cool is that I can fire the Camry up,...leave everything (AFM, tools, etc..) right where it is (laptop included) in the driveway,..head up to the auto store to peruse their aisles for a secret weapon...come home to find everything just as I left it...

.....trying to find positive in this nightmare?

I'll be back,,,
,,...and thanks for "tuning in to this program"...it's therapeutic for it's depressed creator..

... thanks guys,..a bunch...money's been tight around here and I don't need to hear of an engine drop in my NEAR future. Your suggested approaches may help me avoid this,......

In the meantime, the kid called to check on the status...wanted to come by and help...I told him just to stay home today,..we'll get together a bit later for a ride.....still forgiving of his oversight...

till next round,

Best
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmith660 View Post
Right Chuck assuming no locktite was used to hold the stud. Now more food for thought evaluate cost wise if you have a mechanic do this: you pulling the intake and having the car towed versus him pulling the intake at his probable shop rate of 80 bucks an hour and fixing the stud also you might be able to get a machinist to come to your house to do the work I did on my chevy 350. good luck hope the stud spins out with vise grips.
If I can't get it out,..what exactly will the machinist do to succeed? Would he do/use something that would require the intake to be removed? Or would he do/use something, as is? Educate me....

I can use AAA to get it to my wrench free so that's not a cost factor...what would it cost for the wrench to do it (showing up with the car, as is...intake inplace....?

You're right gsmith, I should be keeping this in the back of my mind here...and thanks for pointing it out.

I hope the bieatch spins out too.......

any tool to make this happen, aside from vicegrips?

Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:15 AM
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