?'s about putting 911 engine in a 912

Iowa911 · 01-12-2008, 02:22 PM

I posted this in the 912 section, not much activity over there. Thought I'd ask you guys I know a few of you have some 912 experience. Recently I have posted some questions about a 77 911 I am trying to acquire with the hopes of transplanting the engine into a long hood car well, here's the latest possible scenario.
I have a chance at a 912 that is disassembled and has been sitting for 10+ years. I have not seen it, as I am in Iowa and it is in the San Fran area. Here it goes with the questions:
1st, what is a fair value range of a 1966 912 in this state assuming it is in relatively rust free condition and complete.
2nd Would it be horrible of me to put a 911 2.7 engine in it? If the existing engine is all there and in easily rebuildable shape would that be a better thing to do?
3rd, What is involved in making the 6 cylinder conversion?
Lastly, is there anyone out there in the SF area who might be willing to check it out for me? The plus for them is if I pass, I would let them have 1st crack at it.

Thanks
I'm sure I'll have more questions as this proceeds.

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

briefly, as there are tons of details, here is the work list
IF the 77 911 is in good condition, why do you want to do this? smog regs in your state? The amount of work needed to make a 912 out of a donor 911 is a LOT ! You can take the parts from the 912 and backdate the 77 (asuming you have a long wheelbase 69 912) a whole lot easier than the other way around. The 77 body has much better wiring and galvanizing in the chassis for rust resistance

IF the 77 911 is a wreck, then the story changes. I am assuming you can do a lot of your own work, or have friends that will help work for beer ? All of the systems in the 912 should be addressed so you end up with a competent car once finished
1) change over front suspension (as long as the 912 has the adjustable upper mount plates, the later 911 will bolt right in)
2) change over fuel lines/ replace- taking chances on potential fire on a 30+ year old car?
3) cut and open area to mount oil tank in right rear quarter panel- see your 77 for how it should be mounted
4) pound up the rear seat hump to clear the 915 trans from the 77
5) install shifter mechanism, rod, coupler from the 77
6) rebuild 912 pedal assy, use the 77 clutch cable arm in it, use the 77 cable
7) review wiring in chassis and add enough leads from engine compartment to front to replicate the 77
8) you will have to find a way to use the axles from the 77 with the early rear outer hubs- a trip to a local cv joint rebuilder may help. If the 912 is a 69, then install the whole rear suspension from the 77
9) install the rear torsion bars from the 77, get new bushings for the spring plates
10) swap over the guages and hook them up to the new leads you added

Rebuild the 912 motor? Usually very expensive, but cheaper than doing the swap

Iowa911 · 01-12-2008, 03:15 PM

TRE
Thanks. That is about what I thought. I know it's involved, but the 77 is a wreck. The 912 is a '66. Can oil tanks be removed/ reused or do you buy/build new?
What about engine and tranny mounts?

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

you can cut out the sheet metal sections out of the 77 for weld in on the motor mounts. the oil tank (if damaged) can be had inexpensively secondhand
look at your 912 chassis trans mount area to see how it compares with regards to the 77. They might be the same.

ossiblue · 01-12-2008, 04:51 PM

Tre is much more experienced than I but I'd like to include one more thing. The car you are looking to implant the 2.7 in is a 66--short wheel base. This will complicate the trans/axel/CV swap. Additionaly, the true 911 short wheel base cars had steel weights in the front bumpers to balance the weight of the engine. Not only does the 912 not have the weights, but the engine you plan on installing is heavier than the 2.0 the 66's came with. This does not make your plan impossible, but, IMO, your project is very labor and cost intensive and there are less extreme alternatives.
Your post mentions the engine as being in "easily rebuildable shape". Do you mean it needs a rebuild now? ($$$).
A car sitting for 10+ years, even with "little rust", probably means total refurb of all systems, as mentioned by Tre. ($$$)
I just see a ton of money and labor with the scenario, using the 66. I hope this project is for your love of the task because you are looking at a long marriage.

haycait911 · haycait911's Garage

my '66 912 has a '71 2.2 in it. with a 901 5 speed, original I think. only real issue is welding in different motor mounts. and cutting out the 912 mounts. or you can leave in the 912 mounts but, they get in the way of changing plugs. if you're only doing the engine, it's not a big deal. also, a switch to carbs on the 2.7 would simplify wiring/fuel issues. oil tank mount seems not hard, don't know if a SWB tank is different though. trans swap would need more work, front SWB mount and CV issues?

dondarnell · 01-12-2008, 08:22 PM

Huh, I don't think that it is as difficult as some make it out to be. It would certainly be easier if you used carbs, and a 901 box.

I am going throught this myself using a 2.4. Biggest challange was getting my Porsche dealer to sell me 911 motor mounts.

I am not yet to the oil tank, and not looking forward to it.

Larry_Ratcliff · 01-12-2008, 09:03 PM

I have done this with a swb 912. When I did mine I wanted to make it look semi correct for the year. I took a 74 2.7 but converted it to webbers. I also found an early 911 oil tank from a local wrecking yard so that the engine bay would look correct from that aspect. The only thing that looked out of place was the valve covers and timing cover from the 2.7.

The 912 is geared somewhat lower than the 911. It provides for great track and auto cross gears but you might think of either sourcing a 911 gear box or regearing the 912 gear box.

The rear engine mounts for the 911 can be purchased new from stoddard. Not cheap if I remember right they are about ~300 for the pair. You will need to remove the 912 corner pieces in order to get the 911 mounts in place.

For the 912 engine mount I just cut that off the frame.

So this much gets the engine in the car. I would say that if you want the interior to feel correct you should source a set of green face gauges. (this is what I did for mine). You will also need to wire up the oil tank sender.

You will also need to wire up the fuel pump and fab up a mount for it. The 912 fuel pump is on the engine.

I think you will also want to source an early exhaust. Both heat exchangers and muffler. You might actually have a fire hazzard if you put the thermo reactors of the 77 under the 912.

Here is a shot of mine after the conversion:

Larry_Ratcliff · 01-12-2008, 09:05 PM

Oh and I am in the Bay Area. If you need someone to go take a look at the car I can help you out. I can give an unbiased assessment.

Iowa911 · 01-13-2008, 07:27 AM

Thanks for all of the info. It is starting to look a bit more involved than I had hoped. I am starting to think I may just rebuild the 912 and make it original. I think if I had access to a 2.2 this might be more doable.
Larry, I may get in touch with you. This is a "barn find" of sorts. Car was in the process of being restored by a friend's uncle when he passed away. It has been sitting for all these years. No one has the time/motivation to do anything with it. My hope is that it isn't in too many pieces, so it can be loaded on a transport fairly easily.

Thanks

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Do it.....hell, I stuffed a 2.2/6 into a 356.

I have an extra 915 trans and oil tank if you need it....

bob tilton · bob tilton's Garage

Mr Larry,
Are you running an external oil cooler?

EarlyPorsche · 01-13-2008, 07:35 AM

Do it, its not that hard, almost everything else on the car expect for I think torsions is the same and all you would need to add is a simple electric fuel pump. I could probably be done in a weekend and be driving the next. Mine has stock 912 suspension because I liked the ride, and I chose a 3 gauge 912 because I liked the simple look. The 65-66 are the best cars in my opinion and making them a correct flat six only makes them better in my eyes. I went with a period correct engine but I am sure the 2.7 would be equally fun!

Iowa911 · 01-13-2008, 07:46 AM

If I do it, how much of the stuff I need could be pulled of the 77? Oil tank , engine mounts, what about suspension bits? The car in question is a basket case as far as the body, but I believe the engine could be o.k.. BTW, it is a 4 speed 915/65.

EarlyPorsche · 01-13-2008, 02:08 PM

Almost everything can be pulled off the 77. Whats wrong with the suspension on the 66? If its in good condition you may not need any suspension bits from the 77. Otherwise you can refresh it with new bushings and it will be good.

Larry_Ratcliff · 01-13-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlyPorsche

Almost everything can be pulled off the 77. Whats wrong with the suspension on the 66? If its in good condition you may not need any suspension bits from the 77. Otherwise you can refresh it with new bushings and it will be good.

If you want to run a performance suspension you will have to swap out the early car suspension. Otherwise you will not be able to find bushings for the front A arms. Might as well grab the front suspension from the 77 since it will be a nice upgrade for the brakes as well (vented disks).

Larry_Ratcliff · 01-13-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob tilton

Mr Larry,
Are you running an external oil cooler?

I actually sold my 67. However, the guy who bought it put on an external cooler. I am just waiting for him to get tired of it then I will buy it back from him

boxster03 · 01-13-2008, 06:10 PM

Don't do it

Early 912's are the next 73 CIS which was the next RS which was the next S/T which was the next 917.

BertBeagle · 01-13-2008, 06:21 PM

I have a 66 912 in fairly nice condition. I bought it for the motor to use in a 356. It is a 3 gauge car with original 5 speed. The front suspension pan needs replacing and there are a few other minor rust spots on the body. No holes or rusted out parts. The interior and headliner is nice and the dash is not cracked. The paint is pretty good and the gaps are good. The doors and hood are very nice. The chrome on the doors window frames is very good. Other chrome is good.
It has steel wheels that need replating or painting. Everything electrical works on the car.

Overall the car is pretty nice and with a little work would be a very nice driver that would not need a repaint.

I am thinking of selling this car less engine. Anyone have any idea what they are worth less engine which I will keep?

Larry_Ratcliff · 01-13-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertBeagle

I have a 66 912 in fairly nice condition. I bought it for the motor to use in a 356. It is a 3 gauge car with original 5 speed. The front suspension pan needs replacing and there are a few other minor rust spots on the body. No holes or rusted out parts. The interior and headliner is nice and the dash is not cracked. The paint is pretty good and the gaps are good. The doors and hood are very nice. The chrome on the doors window frames is very good. Other chrome is good.
It has steel wheels that need replating or painting. Everything electrical works on the car.

Overall the car is pretty nice and with a little work would be a very nice driver that would not need a repaint.

I am thinking of selling this car less engine. Anyone have any idea what they are worth less engine which I will keep?

Front suspension pan is a pretty big job. I would say if the longs and other pans are solid and the body is straight with all the panels fitting properly then it should be worth somewhere in the 3Kish range.