Infos on a 911/51 engine

Hi to all, i am from a 914 forum but you are the 911 guys. I am comtemplating a 6 conversion for my 914.

I can have a 1972 2.4 911/51 type engine with complete mechanical injection and exhaust.

Can someone tells me the in/out of that engine? And what should i worry about? Any specs would be appreciated. Whats its worth?

Make sure you get the Fuel pump with the motor... Special fuel pump needed for MFI.

There is also an issue of needing to get heat
from the Heat exchangers to the MFI unit to control the Cold Idel circuit. On a 914/6
Heat exchangers are rare and expensive $$$.
If you don not have exchangers you need to fabricate something from the exhaust to feed
heat to the MFI or you will always run Rich.
BTW You need 914/6 Heat exchangers not 911.

The MFI pump can big a big $$ item to repair or service. MFI runs great once it is tweeked and in spec. not easy to get to that point.

Is the motor currently running is there any documentation with the motor. Have a leak down test done. Have a P-Mechanic inspect the motor.

I would shy away from MFI on a 914/6 conversion. Why is the motor being sold
How many miles on the motor ??
Good Luck

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• Joe A.
• 84 911 Targa
• 75 914/6 3.0

Thanks for the answer. If i were to use carbs instead, would that be a better choice?

I love MFI (and I have it on my 70 911E) but I think the access problems in the 914 would make it even tricker to tune and maintain properly. As Joe pointed out, getting the pump rebuilt (by Gus @ Pacific FI) costs around $700, right up around the cost of a decent set of used Weber 40's. Then there are the aforementioned issues w/ getting heat to the pump thermostat. It has been done before, but I'd stick w/ CIS or Webers if & when I do a /6 conversion. I have also seen 3.2 conversions that retained the DME system.

Another factor with the earlier 2.2/2.4 engines is that you may not have the bottom end you are looking for -- the small displacement 911 engines will feel pretty flat at low revs compared to a strong 2.0 Type4! (Now get up over 3500rpms and it's a totally different story!)

I'm leaning towards a 3.2 if/when I convert my teener...



[This message has been edited by campbellcj (edited 03-29-2001).]

Farley,

The MFI 'T' engine had 140 hp DIN at 5600 rpm, and 148 lb-ft of torque @ 4000 rpm.

The major concern would be valve guide wear, assuming that it is in running condition. I suggest a top-end job if the exhaust valve guide wear is noticeable when the engine is turned over to 10 mm lift and the exhaust valve stems are pressed sideways with a large slotted screwdriver! If you do a top-end job, put in JE forged 9.5:1 pistons!

The '916' of 1972 had a 2.4S MFI engine in it, so it was a feasible project, and ready for production when the accountants killed it! Since you are obviously contemplating a few modifications to put any 911 in there ... I would keep the MFI heat exchangers, and just route a couple of 2.25" pipes back to the rear with U-bends and use the stock 'banana' muffler that is on the engine now, relocated to the 914 tail. The 914/6 used the same exact OEM muffler as early '65-'74 911s, so your 'look' would be stock, just the pipe routing to get there would be different!
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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 03-29-2001).]

Thanks for the answer. If i were to use carbs instead, would that be a better choice?

Farley,

Not in my opinion, but I am equally familiar with Webers and MFI ... I just prefer the MFI, and believe it is more reliable and less hassle over the long term! But, you might want to read up on the MFI system before you make that decision. Check out all/most of the ducuments on the follo0wing Pelican page:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_MFI/TipMFI.htm

The 'Check, Measure, and Adjust' factory publication is commonly called the 'Blue Book' ... and is mandatory reading!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Hello

Big engines need an 915 trany and some other little improvments.

If it is a solid engine it is a good way to start. Many other things have to be changed to fit in the 914. Oilsystem, shrouding, electric, engine mounts, shifter.

Importent is to get all parts including the CD unit and fuelfilterhousing.

The MFI is not for beginners and so if there are any daubts about how good the engine runs you better retrofit to carbs and keep the MFI for later upgrades.

Grüsse

Just browse the rennlist archives for some further input: http://boards.rennlist.com/9146

I spotted a Porsche 6 in my area at a cost that might be good. But the owner doesnt know exactly what it is... (i know it doesnt sound good but then..)

Here is the serial number. *2080005*

Can i find from this what kinda engine it is?

Thanks to all.

Farley,

It would be helpful if you would also find the engine 'type number' ... to the right of the serial number on a horizontal rib just to the right of the fan housing mount. It will be of the form 9xx/yy.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

OOppps.. its a 911/03.

Sorry.

Farley,

That is a 1970 ROW 2.2 'T' engine type, 125 hp DIN at 5800 rpm. The serial number seems to be garbled ... are you sure that is correct?

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

Hi Warren, as it is garbled, i presume you recognize the engine by its 911/03 code?

Then, what do you mean by garbled? That for this type it shouldnt be that type of numbering?
What is ROW?

A good engine to put in a 914? Thanks.

Farley,

Yes, the type number pins down the specs of the engine, and I should have said '70 or '71, because it could be either until the serial number is verified. And ROW means rest of the world ... 911/07 or 911/08 (Sportomatic) was the USA-spec 2.2 911T engine.

The typical '70 'T' serial number would read 610xxxx, '71 would be 611xxxx ... where the xxxx are the sequential build number on the production line. The first digit is always '6', second digit is '1' for 'T' engines, third digit is '0' for 1970 model, '1' for 1971 model.

The flywheel would be have to be changed to a 'cup' type for a 'push-type' clutch, and a new clutch 'kit' would be needed for a 914 installation, but it does have 15 hp more than the stock 914/6 engines!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 03-30-2001).]

Hi farleyd and Warren, farleyd i think you make a mistake about the type it is 901/03,you don't trust me... Raynald

Hi Warren, youre of big help. Thanks.

I have two engines that i can buy locally.
1) The 1970 2.2T that weve been dicussing. It has been overbored to 2.5 in my understanding. This i can have with: exhaust + alternator + fan + CD housing
minus: flywheel, fuel pump, clutch
Price: around 1000US$
2) A 1972 MFI 2.4T, serial number 6121242:
with: clutch, flywheel, exhaust, headers, throw-out bearing, MFI, harness etc. This one, i was said, would to be equipped with carbs, along with a stock fuel pump.
without: MFI fuel pump
Price: around 1300US$.
3) I go to Herschey in April. What should i look for? What would be the best hassle free 6 engine to put in my 914.
Thanks again.

OK, the engine i am scouting has been identified as a 1969 901/03 2.0L, same as 914/6.

But the engine as been bored or modified, and the actual owner doesnt have a clue about whats been done to the engine, but it has sure been bored.

Is there a way i can track down mods to this engine? In case not, should i run away?

Thanks.

MFI would be *****in in a 914. webers are like hen's teeth these days.

Hello

The 2,5 is a short stroke with 2,7 P&C. Boring up an 2R or even a 3R case is not very usefull on the long run.

I would advise to get a Bruce Anderson for deeper knowledge about the motor and all ( Q: D. Adams )

ON the long run the 2,4 is the better solution. On the other hand who ever machined up the 2,2 case must had knowledge and maybe it is the right stuff

Just make clear what are the actuall conditions and how much you need to fit it in.

Grüsse