Wheels "loose" even after bearings tightened?

[Emission]

There is a vibration at high speeds.

I have new tires, tie rods, new steering rack, and recently replaced/tightened bearings on the front wheels. The front shock towers are tight.

The car is in the air.

When I yank on the top of the tire (vertical axis - camber) I get a slight "rocking" back and forth (1/8th inch of movement). When I yank on the sides of the tire (horizontal axis - toe) it is rock solid.

If it were loose/bad bearings, I'd assume the "rocking" would be there in all axis. Right?

What could be causing the tires to rock on the vertical axis, and not the horizontal?

Any ideas and suggestions welcome.

- Mike

[john walker's workshop]

worn spindle under the outer bearing.

[porsche930dude]

ball joints?

[Emission]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

worn spindle under the outer bearing.

Is that this part (it has 138,000 miles on it)? What do you replace... the whole suspension component?

[Emission]

Originally Posted by porsche930dude

ball joints?

Another good suggestion. I don't how old they are.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by Emission

Is that this part (it has 138,000 miles on it)? What do you replace... the whole suspension component?

slip just the bearing on and see how loose it is. the strut would have to be replaced if it's badly worn there.

ball joints under spring (torsion bar) tension usually don't show slop until they are freed from the tension, like if you jacked up the arm from below.

[Emission]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

slip just the bearing on and see how loose it is. the strut would have to be replaced if it's badly worn there.

ball joints under spring (torsion bar) tension usually don't show slop until they are freed from the tension, like if you jacked up the arm from below.

That pic is from when I replaced the bearings/races. Today, the whole thing is assembled - a PITA to pull it all apart.

Is the wear the area where I have drawn the arrow? The struts were replaced 13,000 miles ago. Ballpark price on spindles?

[Quicksilver]

The area where you pointed the arrows is where the inner seal rides. The blue area is where the inner bearing seats.

The area in green is where the outer bearing is seated.

[Emission]

So, the green "channel" is from the outer bearing, and the yellow "channel" is from the inner bearing wear over the past two decades?

That makes sense now.

I couldn't find just the spindle for sale on the Pelican parts list...

[porsche930dude]

By the looks of that ball joint id say check that first before you go any farther with the spindle. I kind of doubt its the beaing races. The loose ness there should be taken out when you tighten the hub nuts thats what its there for.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by porsche930dude

By the looks of that ball joint id say check that first before you go any farther with the spindle. I kind of doubt its the beaing races. The loose ness there should be taken out when you tighten the hub nuts thats what its there for.

unless the spindle is worn. look on the bottom side. green arrow. a small bit of slop at the spindle translates to a larger amount out at the edge of the tire.

[Emission]

OK, the ball joints are OEM - never been replaced (I just looked through all of the service history for the past 22 years).

I have a set that I ordered, but never installed, when I replaced the struts/shocks. I am going to start there since I already have the parts.

Thanks for your help guys, I'll update this thread when I have an outcome.

- Mike

[zzwhm]

Not sure if it's a problem on Bilstein but on Boge struts the weld attaching the strut tube to the piece holding the spindle can break. This causes the wheel to rock on the vertical axis like a loose bearing . Test by mounting the wheel/tire for leverage and have someone rock the tire while you view the back side of the strut.
Bill

[Emission]

Originally Posted by zzwhm

Not sure if it's a problem on Bilstein but on Boge struts the weld attaching the strut tube to the piece holding the spindle can break. This causes the wheel to rock on the vertical axis like a loose bearing . Test by mounting the wheel/tire for leverage and have someone rock the tire while you view the back side of the strut.
Bill

Can you see it with a flashlight if you clean the piece off?

[john walker's workshop]

also see if there as any side to side slop in the top strut bushings that the shock insert slides on. should be able to feel it as you push and pull on the upper part of the strut.

[zzwhm]

Originally Posted by Emission

Can you see it with a flashlight if you clean the piece off?

Probably not without someone rocking the tire. You need to duplicate the slop you have been feeling while looking at the back side of the strut.

[jhelgesen]

Is the shock tight in the strut housing? I had a similar movement in my car, the nut holding the shock in the housing had worked loose, allowing the strut to move about 3mm in the vertical axis.

[Jay Auskin]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

also see if there as any side to side slop in the top strut bushings that the shock insert slides on. should be able to feel it as you push and pull on the upper part of the strut.

Yup.

This baffled the heck outta me. Darn near everything is new on my front end. No bearing wear (they're new). Put the wheel back on.....it moves. remove wheel, hold the top (shaft) part of the strut, move the rotor...no movement. Release the top part....yank on the rotor to check wear....movement. The darn shaft/bushing is loose where it slides in the strut cartridge. I've never heard of that...but from what JW sez above, it must happen?

Will new strut inserts fix this? I checked the threaded part that goes into the housing. It's tight. BTW, I have Bilstein HD's in front.

[Emission]

Originally Posted by jhelgesen

Is the shock tight in the strut housing? I had a similar movement in my car, the nut holding the shock in the housing had worked loose, allowing the strut to move about 3mm in the vertical axis.

I have Bilstein Sports (HD?) that have 13,000 miles on them.

Come to think of it, when I drive over cobblestone/rough pavement, I hear a rattle in the front end. It sounds like something is loose. I always wrote it off as my strut brace...

So, if I jack the car back up and pull the wheel, I should be able to grasp the strut inside the metal colllar and wiggle it? In theory, it should be solid, not loose?

Are you talking inside the area in the pic?

(Don't worry, the jack in the pic is not holding up the car, it is only there in case one of the jack stands fails - or we have an earthquake!)

[jhelgesen]

Mike, see the nut over the buldge? Thats what loosened.



Turns out I had the wrong shocks in my car, let them wiggle in the strut housing. Had to add some washers in the bottom of the housing and now she is fixed.