How much would you pay for an RSR clone?

rennch · rennch's Garage

No, don't worry, I'm not selling my car before it's done. But I'm curious to know what the value on the open market might be. I don't need hard numbers, but a range would be great.

Lets make some assumptions:

Lets say the car was based on a longhood 911T, and was a bare chassis restoration. Rust free, as period-correct as can be, and with a hot-rod engine. (May or may not be built to RSR specs. )

Think BBII, SoCal70RSR's car, or DW SD's car.

I know you're a do-it-yourselfer, but lets assume you can afford it, and are willing to pay to just pick it out and drive it off the lot.

How much?

My inclination is $40-$75k, depending on the specs, but maybe I'm low or high.

I think I can track down how much a restored car would be, from the Excellence charts if they are accurate.

Thanks...

911pcars · 02-10-2008, 05:41 PM

It's whatever the market will bear.

All it takes is one buyer who wants it badly enough. However, this is usually not related to a quick sale.

Sherwood

rennch · rennch's Garage

No, I understand that....its worth how much someone is willing to pay. But, I'm just trying to get a general idea. Thanks...

EarlyPorsche · 02-10-2008, 05:46 PM

You would be on the lower end of what you were thinking. Remember that all of these "trends" (wide body kits, body kits, race kits, conversions done in the 80's, 959 kits) do not last too long, right now is a hot market if you want to sell a 911 with an RSR looking body but in a couple years, after these vehicle start showing their age, and the seams where flairs were improperly welded start rusting and popping out the paint underneath, the prices will drop and guys like me will have to figure out how to reverse what has been done to these nice 911T's to make them right again.

If you have a restored 911T, you are at the pinnacle of its value. Modify it and buyers will pay less.

rennch · rennch's Garage

Ok, so you're thinking $40-50k? I'm not pinned on the RSR look...just restored cars. Happy to focus on whatever the current trend is, actually.

gestalt1 · 02-10-2008, 06:07 PM

i think the range could reach 75k for a top notch car. not nesseserily with original rare parts. i don't think these conversions will suffer the same fashion problems as the slant nose/959/update type conversions, basically because they are based on the classic 70s race designs. the long hoods converted to short hoods, gemballa type conversions etc look silly today. an rs or rsr looked good then, in the 80s, the 90s today and tomorrow. if someone wants an rsr clone and is looking at converting/rebuilding a car the cost will run 70k+, if a good car was on the market at less than that it will sell. i've seen rsr clones advertized for over 90k, but they seem to sell for 40-75k.

EarlyPorsche · 02-10-2008, 06:24 PM

Gestalt1 - I know what you are thinking, and I know how you got to your conclusion. I should say that perhaps a 959 conversion and this type are on different ground, however both reduce the value of a quality vehicle. Think of it like the recreation vehicles, for example an old fake 356 speedster isn't worth anything like a new recreation fake speedster because its not original so it wears into a much less attractive and valuable item. I say don't go fake anything and restore what is already a rare commodity or better yet maintain it original/stock for maximum value.

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

more like 30s,. but it simply depends on whats in it. (what type motor, suspension, etc..)

Komenda Fan · Komenda Fan's Garage

How much will it sell for? Probably less than it will cost to build...

Matt Monson · 06:50 PM

I think that you will find that the range is huge depending on two big variables, both of which have been touched on.

Number one will be what parts were used. If the car has got a genuine 2.8l with the original mechanical injection versus a built 7R case replica engine using revamped injection that's been sent of for recalibration or a 3.6l on PMO carbs there's big difference right there. In the right market, that original engine alone will bring you close to the bottom of the above price range for just the engine.

Same thing about steel factory flares versus some GT or Shaw flares. Same goes for wheels, seats, bumpers, steering wheel, gauges. etc. ad naseum. I think you get the point.

Number two is kind of the same thing. Who built the car? Or who contributed in significant ways? Something built by Al Johnson or Dave at TRE or Rothsport, etc. will carry a premium above even the most meticulous of home builders. There will be subtle attentions to detail, as well as qualititative differences that will show themselves over time. Even glass flares installed by one of these professionals will arguably weather the years better than what the majority of shadetree restoration buffs will turn out of their own garage. And a $4000-5000 paint job shows itself as a $4000-5000 paint job.

Given all that, I would widen the range. I would say $20k-$100K. We've all seen them Ebay at the bottom of the range. As for the top? It was rumoured that the 911R replica built with factory parts that was featured in Excellence a year or two ago sold shortly after the article ran for somewhere in the $90-95k range. I've never been able to verify that "fact" and if someone knows for sure or knows it's not true, please feel free to correct me...

rennch · rennch's Garage

30's seems awfully low to me. If Jack Olsen would sell me BBII for $30k, I'd buy it tomorrow.

rennch · rennch's Garage

Cool, thanks for the input!

porschenut · 02-10-2008, 08:01 PM

I think one of the problems is that lots of guys want to build one, but not many seem to be interested in buying a turnkey one.

The point was made earlier that it depends a lot on who does the job. A car built by a well-known shop that has lots of experience building these things (like 3R Automotive in Englewood, for instance) would, in my mind, be worth a lot more than one built buy a guy in his garage. Even if that guy (you, presumably) does an outstanding job with it.

So, I'd say 30's at best for the garage guy, and maybe as high as 70's for a qualified racecar builder. That's just a guess. For all I know, Jack's car may have cost twice that to build.

rennch · rennch's Garage

Nope, I said nothing of the sort. I'm doing some research for a business for a buddy in a different state. Interesting you mention 3R though. Thanks!

Larry_Ratcliff · 02-10-2008, 08:53 PM

I guess it depends how it is built. I know that I have way North of 75 in my 74 RS / RSR .. but it has turbo brakes, 935 suspension, 3.6 engine, LSD trans, full restoration, but welded metal flares so I never have to worry about seams (this is exactly how the factory did early turbo cars) ...
Shoot just to make the bumpers fit right there was 3x the cost of the bumpers to make them fit. Throw in all new rubbers, restored trim, new interior, set of recaro's... 1k here 2K there and bam your at 100+ to build one.

The flip side.. I have seen poorly done cars that I would not give 10K for.

I dont think I would let mine go for less than 75 and that would be a substantial loss.

e-speedster · 02-11-2008, 01:41 AM

I am more of a turnkey person - and have recently been tempted to start of with a 76 to 78 chassis (more rustproof) and ask TRE to backdate/restore it to a 73 RSR

No coil overs - just modified suspension and upgraded brakes to accommodate a vario 3.6 - use their interior line (seats with houndstooth/early style RS panels/new headliner etc)

As for body I would go for all steel fenders and have the 930 front fenders modified for the longhood look - 17" Rota Fox

What to pay? I really have no idea for labor here - I know the parts cost - but would be interesting for me if I had it all set up and ready for a 3.6 plant including modified 915 - me providing the engine - for 40 000 usd - given I start up with a nice bare chassis for approx 3500 usd (with no extra parts that I could sell)

Now a vario 3.6 can easily be had for 8-9000 usd here in Norway

jwhcars · 02-11-2008, 02:49 AM

I hear that Aircooled Racing will have a silver clone ready for the Hershey swap meet this year. Price has not been set at this time. RUMOR has it at $40K / $75K

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

I purchased a 73T 3.2 RS clone. It was a owner's garage fabrication. I am in the process of completing the car to my standard which includes a new interior with original sport seats, refinishing / striping of the exterior, refining some of the mechanical and electrical systems. Including purchase price, the car will easily hit the $60k mark completed and it will not be a Jeff Smith caliber car. Given what I know now I would probably have paid more initially for a more complete car.

IMO, the money is in the details such as authentic RS or RSR components, H1s, TTG or hood mounted lights, wheels and aluminum deck lids. These details with the car or without the car will still bring the dollars or currently lots of euros. As stated a proper RSR 2.8 would be worth as much if not more than any inappropriate car it is placed in.

The below valuation was offered in response to the value of restoring a 67 911 coupe. The opinion is from an astute gentlemen.....

Original Paint in Good Condition: $60,000+
#1 (Restored Show Level Stock): $50,000
#2 (Restored Street Concours Stock): $35,000
#3 (Restored Driver Stock): $25,000
#4 (Unrestored Drivable Project): $15,000
High-Level Hot Rod: $45,000 (?)

Take this valuation and add the price of a few goodies and you will have the cost. Is there a market for this type of car? Yes, but I would venture very limited.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 02-11-2008, 04:31 AM

As others have said, depends on home shop built or "TRE" built. $30K for the former, $50K to $75K for the latter.

3 years ago when the RS clone craze was going on I talked with my shop about building one clone per month, each with a sale price of $30K for a basic clone with 3.2, then start adding options. I thought that at some point you'd start to make some real $ by streamlining all processes from stripping to welding to fitting standardized glass parts, selling parts off donor cars, etc. So first car you might break even but by 5th car you might be making $10K per car. Having a "kid" onboard to handle the dirty work would pay for itself.

They didn't like it so I dropped the dream.

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Porsche-911T-with-many-mods_W0QQitemZ200199027325QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10156 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$22k for a quasi clone

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-RS-replica-Calif-car-excellant-2-7-MFI_W0QQitemZ170192955904QQihZ007QQcategoryZ10156Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$45k for a well done clone.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-911-3-4-ltr-RS-RSR-race-car-show-car-MFI_W0QQitemZ130197097252QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10156Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$125,000 for an over the top version.