NSX vs 911?

I have been running PCA events for the last couple of years with my brother. We run different sessions to do this. Some may think it is crazy to have your maniac brother, (he also has a race built CBR 900), take your car out and beat it. The last event he spun twice. He is fast, very fast and I think it is time for his own car. It actually is great to have two driver inputs on the way the car is handling and also to sit back and watch your car perform. It is also nice to have an identical car to compare lap times with. It was at last years events that after watching my car in sharp turns, I realized the suspension needed upgraded. Which brings me to my point. We want to run the same sessions and he has possible narrowed his selection down to a few cars. We are looking for the most performance for the dollar, trying to stay below $35k. I don't know if anybody has shopped around for 911's, but the price is climbing higher and higher. I bought my 89 coupe 2 years ago for $27,500 and a similar car now is in the low $30's. Don't let those Ebay prices be a guideline. And you can forget the 993's. Which brings me to the NSX. A 92 NSX can be had for the low $30's. I drove one the other day and here is what I like. It has a 3.0 liter engine with 274 hp. Mid engine. 8000 rpm redline. An aluminum body. Double wishbone suspension. Non power steering. Incredible seating position, feels like a McLaren F1. I now the looks are goofy from some angles, especially the rear. It seems the only Porsche that is close to this is the 993, and that is another $20k. I realize the last thing I will get on this board is approval of a Japanese car, but the numbers are all there. Realize we are talking performance and not all the intanglibles that go along with owning a 911. (He'll never understand.) Anyhow, if he gets is, let the race begin!!

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

[This message has been edited by 89911 (edited 04-24-2001).]

What do these NSX things weigh?

I believe the NSX is a very undervalued car. There are a lot of sports cars in the market today, the NSX has been "kicked to the curb" for being underpowered for its sticker price. There are many upgrades for the car, but you'll have to put up with all the "rice" jokes!

Yeah, the NSX is definately an undervalued car, but they do look a bit over the top.

Not the most subtle of cars, especially in red. How about something a little less obvious? Lotus? Esprits are very capable cars.

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Phil Garner
'72 911E Sporto
'87 VW Golf CL 1.6 with Weber (x1!)

89,

When I worked for Acura around 8-10 years ago, the techs at the shop raved about the NSX. I finally drove one and have to agree it's a great car. I believe the service costs are quite high. I'm sure you guys would do the wrenching yourselves, but the parts costs are pretty pricey (something like $1k for an alternator). Too bad parts pricing for those things isn't as competitive as it is for Porsche parts. I could be mistaken though. I'm sure there's gotta be some shops out there that sell Honda parts at a discount.

At least it's got a smooth six and not a high strung four (I had an Integra GSR and got a little tired of the buzzy, rev-happy four- fun to go thru the gears, but the high revs were a little much on the long drives.). As far as handling, the NSX was considered the best handling car around in 1991.

If you have the means to own and maintain one, the NSX is hard to beat for low $30k's



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Kevin
87 Carrera

true story:

my friend Anthony C. has an uncle who is a BIGTIME sports car nut. he is one of those guys that gets an extrememly fast car, goes to the driving school to learn how to drive it, and then when he's learned as much as he can, he sells it and buys another car.

a few years back, Anthony's uncle had a Ferrari 328GTS. his uncle went to a Ferrari driving school to learn how to get 10/10ths out of that car. he drove it like a big go-kart and it was THOROUGHLY exercised every weekend. his uncle even took the car to every track event he could get to. the Ferrari got meticulous care too.

then, after having the Ferrari for a few years, a friend said "hey, i have an Acura NSX that you might be interested in. drive it, and if you like it, i will let you have the car, and the difference in the value, for your Ferrari".

his uncle said "well, that sounds fair" and proceeded to throw the NSX into every corner, every straightaway, and every chicane just as hard, if not harder, than he drove his Ferrari. he drove the NSX like it would be his last drive in any car, and he thoroughly put it through more exercises than a car reviewer or race car driver would.

after a few hours of beating the crap out of the NSX, Anthony's unlce said "well, it's a nice car, but naah, i'll keep the Ferrari".

the guy said "ok, no problem, i have another person interested in the car."

fast forward a week. Anthony's uncle was driving in his Ferrari and he said "you know, that NSX was one hell of a car. i'm going to call that guy up and take him up on the offer." he called the NSX owner and unfortunately he had JUST traded the car away.

Anthony's uncle tried to find another NSX owner that would take him up on his offer, and he offered rides in his Ferrari. unfortunately he found no takers. he regretted not trading away the Ferrari for a while, and ended up selling the car. he brought it to a dealership in Rochester, which showed him a few cars he could have in exchange for his 328GTS.

guess what he got as a trade (don't quote me on this part because this is a few years back)

Mercedes 500SL
Porsche 928GT
Jaguar XJ12
BMW M3

not a bad deal if i say so myself.

just a neat little story i thought you guys would like to hear. it's 100% true and if you want to verify it, Anthony's uncle lives in the Syracuse area, he's a surgeon. the trade-in was from a prominent Rochester, NY exotic car dealer.

obin

[This message has been edited by Obin Robinson (edited 04-24-2001).]

Tell me the name of the Prominant car dealer. Maybe they'll take my humble '87 911 and give me an M3, and 996 Turbo and an XJS in trade... :-)

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Dan Tolley
1987 911 Coupe
http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294

My first reaction is that I am suprised that used NSX's are in that price range, I thought they would be higher. I don't know that much about them but I remember someone once told me that the entire chasis only weighs something like 400 pounds? I would also guess that they are much more technically advanced, from remembering the marketing that the NSX is basically an actual race car. I love porsches but this would be a hard decision.

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Daryl 91C2 Targa

[This message has been edited by Planter91C2 (edited 04-24-2001).]

Well I dont know if this will be of any help but my nephew who currently has an NSX is selling it to pick up a porsche if anyone is interested I can find out more details on the car.

My 0.04 cents (inflation):
If you are looking for the most bang for the bucks. And looking for a weekend racer (not a daily driver). There is another vehicle out there that is severely underpriced. This is a Lotus Esprit Turbo S4S. With a 300+ HP mid-engine balance, Lotus Engineered Suspension, weight 2800lb, 0-60 in 4.4 sec, 1/4 mile in under 12sec. This car is a drag racer and great track car. The s4s was built only in '94 and '95. In '97 they started with the V8 twin turbo 350hp monster. I had one before I bought my 911. You can find a nice one for under $35k. You will get more looks and attention than almost any sports car. Beware of mileage, this is called Lotus Miles and its like dog years. 20-25K miles is like 75-100k in a Porsche. Once I was having my Lotus Valet parked and the attendant points to a NSX and says they look the same. I said yes but that is a HONDA and mine is a Lotus.

Originally posted by JDaniel:
Tell me the name of the Prominant car dealer. Maybe they'll take my humble '87 911 and give me an M3, and 996 Turbo and an XJS in trade... :-)

http://www.johnholtz.com

the Ferrari was in there a few years back, i think 5 years or so. they have others though

obin

After doing some research, the NSX was a development of the Honda racing division and was their first production "street" car. The new car prices on these were horrendous, around $70k. He has tracked down a 92 silver hardtop, (they made a targa later on) with 39K miles selling at an Acura dealer for $34,000. Negotiating may bring it down to $32. Not bad. I believe the other post in that parts are probably expensive. These cars traditionaly sold in the thousands and there's not that may out there. But, the engines are durable. He is suppose to put the deal together tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. And by the way, thanks for the encouraging post. I'll mention these to him. I thought I was going to get my A*S reamed by mentioning these cars. But as open minded sports car enthusiast, one must appreciate performance

A former coworker has an NSX. Very nice car, but really expensive to maintain. Body damage is the worst. He had some minor body damage, and ended up waiting a month to get a quarterpanel from Japan.

Tom

I've always had a soft spot for the NSX. Agreed, the rear 3/4 styling is a little strange, but they always impressed me as a car that Colin Chapman would have built were he still around. Light, extremely agile, with a sensibly sized engine. (Take a look sometime at the front suspension pieces on an NSX. A thing of beauty.) Couple that with build quality and reliablity that the Italians could only dream of...No offense to Esprit owners, but it makes more sense than the turbocharged 4 cylinder grenade in the "old" version of that car, or the afterthought V8 crammed into the "current" version. (Or an Isuzu powered Elan, while I'm on that topic)
Also, while I'm a lifelong member of the rabid 911 faithful, I don't understand some of the anti Honda bias, given the company's serious engineering and competition history. Maybe its just the fallout from too many tacky slammed Civics, I guess...

The NSX is a fine car, both performance and styling IMHO. Before purchasing my '86 cab, I was debating the NSX vs. 911.

Then in the middle of this debate I had the good fortune of seeing a black NSX parked right next to a black 911 Cab in a parking lot.

After walking around both cars for several minutes, the decision was made: 911

The 911 is unique, like no other car in the world with an enourmous history and racing lineage.

The NSX is an immitation Ferrari (but I wouldn't classify it as rice) Plus the 911 will run 300k miles between rebuilds and has a huge aftermarket for parts and upgrades.

I actually think about that parking lot comparison from time to time, especially when I think a non-P car might be in the cards. That memory always brings me back to my senses.

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I own a heavily-breathed-on 930. I had the privilege of putting an NSX through its paces a while back. Thought it was a good car for the dough. Gorgeous little snicky gear box, great balance, nice road feel... In my opinion, though, it needed another 75-100 horsepower to be great.

Since then, nice supercharger kits have come out for the NSX, from what I read. So, when it came time for me to pull the trigger on a sports car, it basically came down to a 930 I could modify, or a NSX I could modify.

Two reasons I chose the 930--first, it's got the look; second, and even more importantly, it is a much more involving, and difficult, car to drive fast. The reward factor is way higher.

But it's a coarse and rough monster, compared to an NSX. All depends on what you're looking for, I guess. If you're going to drive the car a lot on the street, and only occasionally on the track, the question is pretty close. If you want the "yahoo" factor on the track, though, there's no real comparison.

Silver was definitely my favorite of the early cars. Very eye catching.

I agree with the post about the gear box. Very close and precise. Great snarl from the motor when the VTEC kicks in and rises to 8000 rpm.

The NSX's were always hands-off at the shop because nobody wanted to deal with the hassle of the alloy body if damaged.

That story about the 328 GTS is wild. Those things are only about mid $40k to $60k used today. Why was this one worth the sum of all those cars offered for trade? Especially after it was tracked hard regularly. Most (if not all) might want their used Ferrari purchase to be a babied one.


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Kevin
87 Carrera

Here is a quote from www.nsxfiles.com . Go to chapter 1 of the stories section:

"I currently have 126,000+ hard, hard miles on the car as of October 4, 1998. It goes to the redline several times a day. It has been to about 60 time trial events at road racing course such as Willow Springs(17), Laguna Seca(5), Las Vegas(3), ButtonWillow(9), and the Virgina City Hillclimb(5), and two PRO Racing enduros. I have been to about 3 autocross events, but the NSX really ain't a great autocross vehicle due to low torque at low RPMS. The Corvettes really do well at the autocross events in my class. I have taken it to the drag strip once, and got dusted by souped up Preludes and Integras, and have not gone back.

I have about 126,000 miles on the car, with about 9,000 of those miles on the racetrack. Considering the abuse that the car has taken so far, it is quite remarkable as to how well it stands up.

My NSX never burns or leaks oil, and the oil is always perfectly clear. I have not had any engine problems. I have had the following parts replaced:

Four clutches. (Hummm….perhaps do that heel and toe thing a little better?)

Transmission blew up at 18,000 miles. Acura replace free of charge. Apparently a small metal ring in the transmission shattered, and thrashed the entire transmission.

Two electric Windows motors.

The rear trunk struts that would not hold up the trunk anymore.

Rear CV Boot/Joint/bearing. (probably from spinning off the racetrack at Button Willow)

Front A-arm (bushing was shot. Could be from track abuse). Problem was that this was $700+ to fix.

Wheel Bearings, driver's rear at 95,000 miles, passenger rear at 102,000 miles"

Also go to http://nsx.vtec.net/main.html for some more info on the car. For me, if it were a choice between 3.2 Carrera or NSX then it would be an NSX for sure. However,I am looking for a good base for an all out power monster so that is why I chose to get a 930 but every day I think about whether or not I should have gotten an NSX instead. Then I drive my 930 and get confused all over again!!

Basically, the NSX seems to be ultra reliable, like most modern Japanese sports cars and unlike the leaky 911. However, they are very expensive to fix if you have engine or body damage. This is due to the exotic materials used in its construction such as titanium con rods and aluminium body shell and suspension. Straight line performance is equivalent to the 964 and the 6speed models are as fast as a 993. A header swap will bring you to C5 vette killing performance. A Comptech supercharger kit will get you 325hp at the wheel. Handling is generally regarded as near perfect.
Avoid the autos and the targa model for serious drivers.

Originally posted by KTL:
That story about the 328 GTS is wild. Those things are only about mid $40k to $60k used today. Why was this one worth the sum of all those cars offered for trade? Especially after it was tracked hard regularly. Most (if not all) might want their used Ferrari purchase to be a babied one.

KTL,

that story was back in 1995. the 328GTS at that time was worth around $80k (or at least his was). though it was driven hard, it was METICULOUSLY maintained. my guess is also it was modified a bit because it was a car used on the track. also, every time Anthony's uncle drove it, he had it checked out to take care of of things that may have happened to it. it was also kept in a climate controlled garage, and there wasn't a blemish on the car. i am not sure if it was modified in any way, but i know that it was worth a lot of dough.

the cars he traded it in for were not NEW cars, the 928 was an earlier model. my mistake, it was not a 928GT, it was a 928S (oops!). the Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW were also cars coming off of leases, or with mileage in the mid30-60k area. Anthony's uncle also was a really good customer of Holtz... he bought his Range Rovers and other trucks there.

the guy with the NSX was going to offer his NSX plus (if memory serves me right) around $10,000 because his NSX was around $80,000 or so and it was fairly new.

here's some info on the cars involved... it seems like a good trade:

NSX:
http://ritsuko.usc.edu/autos/nsx94.htm

Ferrari:
http://ferrari.dlnhost.net/328.htm


obin

The NSX isn't for me, but it's not a car to be lightly dismissed.

Here are its vital stats:

http://www.autofan.com/April/auto_2/nsx_specs.htm

As a side note, what's the difference between curb weight and actual weight?

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net