Questions for Painting Pro's

Well, it looks like the 911SC is going to be down for several more weeks while the wiring harnesses are shipped from Germany. As such, I have the bright idea that now may be the time to paint the car, being that the engine will be out, etc.

A local paint shop here in St. Petersburg, Florida has quoted me "$3,500 + parts + tax" to strip the car to metal, and refinish it. He'll take $700 off if I take everything apart myself. His shop is filled with Porsche's and other exotics, so he seems to be well versed in working on these cars. Can anyone tell me if this is a reasonable price?

My other question is whether the car needs to be stripped or not. The car was painted about 5 years ago with Glasurit, however the paint is lifting in some areas, primarily on the roof and the tops of the fear fenders. There are "patches" of bubbled up areas, but they feel solid. A friend told me to take the car in, because Glasurit (BASF) warrants the paint for life against defects.

When I brought the car in (the same shop that gave me the estimate did the original paint job 5 years ago), the owner told me that it was not the paint, or his shops fault, but that the bubbling was the original, factory primer lifting from the galvanized metal. He's supposedly seen this on many Porsches, so he said Glasurit wouldn't cover it. Further, he said another reason they wouldn't cover it is becuase the car was not stripped to metal for the first paint job.

Is it possible that the original primer is lifing and causing these problems? I'm trying to determine if it's worth the extra money to strip the car (I'm not sure how much this ads to the price). If the original primer is in fact separating from the metal, is it likely this will happen to the entire car at some point? This won't be a show car, but I'd like to have quality paintwork that will stand the test of time.

Thanks!

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Michael
'78 911SC Euro

If this shop is going to strip the car down to metal, prime and paint it, i would go for it. That's a deal in my neck of the woods. Ave paint job in my area for a porsche is 5,000.
I would have to question him taking all the paint off for this price

The price sounds fair for stripping and painting. Yes, I would strip and be sure they use self etching primer on the bare metal. Today's paint technology will give you a new look for years to come if done properly. Strip, self etching primer, base coat/clear coat...new car. Minimal waxing too.

Michael,I am having Handley Automotive, in Safety Harbor,reparing the front end on my 80 SC. The shop is painfully slow. (going on 5 weeks) But, his work is excellent. I was quoted $2500 for a complete paint job.The quote included removing bumpers,door handles ect.Rick's European in Pinellas Park also is a good place. If you are intrested in their phone numbers for competitive quotes E-Mail me @ csteven3@tampabay.rr.com

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Ice Blue 80SC

Sea Dweller...Hey whats up i live in seminole...If you want a Kick ass paintjob I know where..He did my car. He paints a lot of Porsches and even though i didnt get my 44 stripped to metal he tookeverything apart before he painted it....it cost me $1500

If you want I can give you the number so that you can get an estimate. Seriously, he does a great job and treats it as art and not a job. Here is a pic of my car


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85.5 Porsche 944

I sent this back in a letter to you seadweller, but a recap.
As a full fledged control freak, I pretty much laid out what I want.
A respray of the same color. The paint is chipped, but it's not wasted (as you can see in my pics).
I'm going to take everything off. This part will be a no brainer for them: including the Cab top, rubber, lights, everything that ain't red.
No door jams or trunk or engine compartment paint is necessary. It's fine, and I'm not out to win a concourse as the car has been adorned with a carrera tail (no rubber which is non-stock), front spoiler, and H-4s.
This is 1200$. The guy did my 914 years ago for 300$, and the job turned out great for that price. I'm convinced this guy won't blow it--I could be wrong, but we'll see.


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Kurt B
'84 Carrera Cab.
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

Glasurit is fine paint, and it's great to see that they honour their product with a warranty like that.
But I think you should get a second opinion before trusting the shop you have been to to get it redone.
Painting is even more 'Black Art' than mechanicals. The average punter doesn't have a clue what's involved, and it's easier to pass the buck rather than accept that the refinishing was not up to standard. It sounds like me the guy just wants to make more money. I will stand to be corrected, but has anyone else on this board heard of Porsche's priming procedure to be faulty and create the bubbling? There would be a HELL of a lot of warranty claims out there if it was- think about it!
I have refinished a lot of cars profesionally with Sikkens and Glasurit paint systems. I have seen, and on occasion caused these micro blisters. It usually occurs in the primer coats, and takes a while to show up- and then only in isolated areas. You can pull your hair out trying to determine what causes them, but its usually contaminants in the prepping or bake oven/ booth that cause them...ie, the REFINISHER'S FAULT. Trouble is, people are more likely swayed by a convincing professional into spending more money than they are to argue about something they have little experience or knowledge in. Be warned!

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'72 911 TE


[This message has been edited by Matt Smith (edited 04-30-2001).]

Matt is right, get a couple more quotes. I'm not aware of the Porsche painting process, but I've never heard of a faulty paint job comming from the factory. I too have refinished several of my cars and bikes over the years and have made mistakes that appear after a couple of months. One in particular had me baffled (89 Ducati) I found small circular indents in the paint that I couldn't explain...to cut a long story short...it turned out that the shampoo and conditioner I shared with my wife had sillicone in it. As I painted, small particles of sillicone werefalling from my hair and on to the paint work (I never paint without a hat on now). What I'm getting at is that even paint shops make small mistakes. Set out in writing an agreement between you and your tradesman detailing what will come with the job, the finished result expected, and warranty. A good shop will have no problem with this.

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John Forcier
69 911T

The owner of the shop is correct in stating that it is not Glasurit's fault that the paint is "lifting" or "peeling"; however, it is what is under the paint that matters. Even if when they painted the car five years ago, and used too much hardner in the sealer, or not enough base reducer under the clear or etc... (could be 50 different things) it sounds to me like they put it there.

Some of the Glasurit tints are $400.00 a gallon, and with labor rates approaching 60-70 bucks an hour in different areas of the country; $3500.00 down to metal and back is not bad at all.

PS. ask him what the shop warranty is, not the manufacture. (he should have at least ten years on a paint job if he's worth a ****)

First of all I don't think I'd use a shop that had done a paint job that wouldn't last five years and then say it’s a Porsche problem. It would be interesting if you could find the original invoice for that job and what the guarantee was. If the guy says paint bubbling on Porsche repaints is common I'd say that's bull****. For that kind of money you can expect better.

My car is a daily driver and I could not afford to go for the expensive paint job. I checked out all of the local production paint shops down here in the Sarasota/Bradenton area and finally settled on a shop that uses Sherwin Williams paints. I stripped the car down (left the windshield and back window in) and took all of the parts to the shop. They took their time and did a nice job, cost me $1,000 for their best paint and I got a 5 year Sherwin Williams guarantee (includes bubbling).

If you strip the car down then buy all new seals to put it back together. You have to be really careful on assembly because you don’t want to scratch the paint. An area I found difficult was the seals where fenders join the body. I loosened up the fender bolts in that area and opened them slightly with wooden wedges on the interior near the door jambs and pulled out the old seals. After Painting I had a hell of job getting the replacement seals back in. Finally, I used a thin silicone bead to waterproof the joint then cut the seal to half of it’s original depth and it installed OK. Also, there is a special masking tape the shop can use to lift the windshield and rear window seals so the paint can flow underneath the seal, some shops will just use a piece of string to lift seal.

If I was paying for a bare metal restoration paint job I’d let the shop do the whole thing. One day . . . . .


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Allan Broadribb
'70-911E, 2.2l with Webers

Well, I'm getting estimates that are all over the place! The front pan in front of the gas tank has rust, and I've been quoted everything from $500 to $2,000 for that job alone! Paintwork with a complete stripping is anywhere from $3,400 to $5,000.

Being that this is not going to ever be a councourse show car, I'm wondering if some of the paint on the car can be worked with. For the most part, the paint job is beautiful. There's a few spots, like the small patches of raised paint, some very minor rust stains on the edge of the trunk lid, and a small ding on the front fender will, but otherwise the paint shines like new.

I think I'm going to approach this by seeing what it would take to repair some of the minor imperfections, rather than painting the whole car. With all of these unexpected mechanical issues, I've already got over $15K in the car, and even with a full cosmetic restoration, I don't think the car would be worth $20K, so I'm going to back track a little bit. Also, I still need a windshield (terribly scratched) and a dash pad (small cracks look terrible), so things are adding up.

I take it that I'm not the only one dropping a small fortune on an old 911, am I? When I add everything up, I could be driving a brand new Honda Accord (I know, I know)....

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Michael
'78 911SC Euro