Help!! 911 3.2 1985 Won't Start

[John A. Gallo]

Hi Everyone, Boy Can I Use Some Help, I Put My 911 3.2 Targa In Storage For The Winter In My Garage. When I Went To Start It Won't Start. This Is A Perfect Running 911. I Had For Eight Years Never Ever A Problem. Only Used In Summer. She Has About Half A Tank Of Gas. The Car Turns Over Very Good, It Has A New Battery That I Had Connected To A Battery Maintainer. When I Check The Batt Maintainer The Red Lead Had Fallen Off The Bat Terminal But Since It Was New, It Turns Over The Engine Without A Problem. This Car Is As New And No One Has Been Fooling With It. Can You Tel Me How I Can Check Out What The Problem Is. Everything Looks In Order Under The Hood....
I Do Not Smell Any Fuel At All. Should I Hear A Fuel Pump Running When I Turn On The Key, Is There A Fuse I Can Check. The Car Has Had A Cover On It All Winter. This Car Has Never Done This Always Started And Runs Perfect. Many Thanks For Any And All Advice John Gallo

[3.2 CAB]

If you are trying to start the engine, and it is cranking fine, but it is just not starting from being turned over, and you do not smell any raw gas odor at the exhaust, after a start attempt, I would first install a new DME relay, or at least a known good one. If it still does not start, I would check to see if the ignition system is producing spark. If it is, then I would check the fuel pump circuit for a problem, corrosion, bad relay, bad fuse, etc. After getting the results from these test, let us know and we will then walk you through further testing to do. Good luck!! Tony.

[mackskibum]

Fuel pump only runs when cranking. Check connections at the front of the engine- maybe a plug is undone. Also, check the connections at the cylinder head temp sensor, crank position sensor and the TDC sensor. (left side of engine compartment).

Also, could someone have set the alarm? Check the key switch in the door jamb.

DME relay- always suspect

Look at fuel pump fuse in the trunk.

You should be able to find relatively easily with a little time.

[rusnak]

I actually think you are not getting full 12 volts to your fuel injection. Your battery should read between 13.2 and 13.4 or so volts with everything shut off. Try cleaning all of the battery contacts, check the fill level and top up with distilled water if needed, and charge up the battery. Re-check your ground points in the engine compartment, front hood, and at the battery.

My bet is it'll start right up. The combination of sitting, and cold weather probably has drained your battery to the point that it'll crank over but not run.

[ischmitz]

The first thing I would try is this - while one person cranks the engine tap the injectors with a screwdriver handle. They get stuck close when not used for a long time. Most times it will fire right up.

Once the engine catches let it run for less than a minute. Then feel the exhaust ports and make sure all six are warm. If one is cold its injector needs more "convincing" I had the same issue with a 88 Carrera that had been sitting for several month.

Other sometimes "jolt" the injectors with 12 volts from the battery for less than a second. However, you need to know what you are doing. Too long and they can get damaged.

Ingo

[Sapporo Guy]

I had a similar starting problem in late January. Dang thing gave me a simple crank over but didn't seem to have the juice to go boom.

I put jumpers on and started up from there.

Before connecting the jumpers I didn't smell the petrol but after the cables were on and cranked it a few times. ahhhh, the sweet smell of flooding

[Ray B]

Do the easiest (and cheapest) thing first. Give the fuel pump a couple of taps. You may have to use the hammer and chisel(screwdriver) method to reach the pump behind the cover plate. Alternatively, after taking all prudent safety precautions, you might try same whilst having a helper crank the car.

[MOMO3.2]

John:

The DME relay is the first thing I would check.

Next, you can use a jumper to run the fuel pump at the fuse box to see if it is running.

It is also pretty easy to check for spark.

From personal experience, my next course of action would be to visually check the solder joints in the ECU. Better yet, you can really begin to isolate the problem by plugging your ECU into another proper running Carrera 3.2 to verify that it is functioning properly.

If not, it is your ECU (likely a solder joint). If the other car does run, you can follow the "no start" procedure in the Bentley.

Good luck.

Mike

[ischmitz]

For me the easiest things are usually also the cheapest things:

0. Check fuses
1. Make sure you have fuel in the tank
2. When you turn the ignition to On you should be able to hear the first DME relay under the drivers seat click
3. When you start to crank you should hear the second stage click
4. Check for spark (old spark plug connected to one lead grounded to the engine metal while someone cranks). If you have spark you can assume a good DME relay, and a DME that hasn't catastrophically failed.

Next, you need to make sure to get fuel. Again, I would first assume stuck injectors especially on a car that has been sitting. The easiest and cheapest is to tap the injectors while someone cranks.

Kragen and others sell little gimicks that attach to the injector wires to tell you whether they get a signal. That might be a handy tool to decide whether a no-fuel situation is due to plumbing (pump, filter, clogged injector, stuck injector) or electrical (faulty DME)

Re-soldering the DME comes WAY down the list only when I know the DME is faulty. I would never do that unless I have verifiied with another DME this this is the issue. And even then there are more sophisiticated ways to test what's wrong with it.

Ingo

[Sapporo Guy]

hmmm, maybe a silly suggestion.

But does the 3.2 engine have a pop-off ?

[Wil Ferch]

rusank sez ...

"Your battery should read between 13.2 and 13.4 or so volts with everything shut off."

This is not correct. For sake of accuracy and future reference.... a fully charged battery "with everything off" is about 12.6 volts. Expect to see 13.4-14.3 volts between idle RPM and 2000-3000 rpm... for a properly functioning and voltage-regulated system.

Standby voltage drops off rather precipitously too. Fully charged is 12.6 volts "when off".... a 75% charge is 12.4 volts.... and so on.

[rallyracer]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

hmmm, maybe a silly suggestion.

But does the 3.2 engine have a pop-off ?

no, the pop-off valve was used on the CIS cars. Motronic cars are fine. Actually, CIS is fine, if tuned and maintained properly, but many people find them comforting. I know I've used mine!

[jlex]

Don't trust that battery maintainer. Just jump your battery to another running car & I bet it'll start right up. These 3.2's need lots of power. It can even show spark, but unless it's "hot" enough, it won't crank over. Get the jumpers out & let us know!
regards,
jlex.

[John A. Gallo]

Many thanks guys, I have the 911 stored at a different location from my house. So I plan on going there with your advise to give it a try. As soon as I couldn't start it I stopped doing that and covered her up and went home I didn't want to do something that I shouldn't have until I contacted the forum...This has been the most reliable car I have ever had so of course I have been feeling real bad until she starts up. I am going to sell some of my cars and this one will be one to go. I will really hate to part with the car. I looked for years to find this one. I thought I would always have it but my comitments have changed and therefore I will sell. Triple black with a targa roof that has never been folded..fully optioned posti rear, cruse, pwindows, seats, 16"wheels ac/R59, H4 lights,on and on.. so when I am going to sell it, no start..do you think she is trying to tell me something..ha ha..
I WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW I MAKE OUT...I have been storing this car for years with never a problem..thanks John Gallo

[John A. Gallo]

..Hi everyone, well today I went back to my 911 to try and start it.

When I got there I tried it again no luck the battery is fully charged. I had spark,I heard the dme relay click twice. I jumped the fuel pump and I heard it run. I tryed to start it again nothing. SO I JUMPED THE FUEL PUMP AGAIN FOR ABOUT THREE SECONDS AND TRYED TO START IT AND IT STARTED. I ran the car until it warmed up , it ran perfect nice and smooth. I turned it off and tried to start again and again. It started up again no problem..
I would like to know what coused this to happen. The car never ever did that before. Tomorrow I am going back to try it again. Could it have lost some fuel presure or something...What do you THINK????? no signs of a fuel leak anywhere..Thanks for all your advice..I was so happy today to here it run again.
All The Best, John Gallo

[nesslar]

When my DME relay failed, it was the third instance of hard starting that had ocurred. First time, at home, the car finally started after about five minutes of trying, waiting, trying again....second time I was down the road at a store, finally started after about thirty minutes. Boy, lucky! Third time was at home, and no way, period. This was all within a week or so. I bought the new relay, installed it, and haven't looked back.....except to put a spare in the trunk!
I would change it out. It might be croaking.....

[ischmitz]

John, so you jumpered the fuel pump a couple of times. Finally, did you put the DME relais back in place and it still started fine or was it running with the jumpered pump?

Maybe air in the fuel lines or stuck injectors....

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

rusank sez ...

"Your battery should read between 13.2 and 13.4 or so volts with everything shut off."

This is not correct. For sake of accuracy and future reference.... a fully charged battery "with everything off" is about 12.6 volts. Expect to see 13.4-14.3 volts between idle RPM and 2000-3000 rpm... for a properly functioning and voltage-regulated system.

Standby voltage drops off rather precipitously too. Fully charged is 12.6 volts "when off".... a 75% charge is 12.4 volts.... and so on.

Wil, sorry I didn't mean Everything everything, as in the engine shut off....I meant with engine running and accessories shut off...but whatever thanks I guess.

I think on cars as old as these we can get some reliability issues due to corrosion or dirty contacts. Think about all of the connections that can be loose, or dirty, and all of the accumulated resistance that can build up. I still think when you have a problem it's a good idea to re-check your connections and clean the contacts, especially the ground and the battery contacts.

Also, John, if you don't already have a spare DME relay you need to buy one as already mentioned. I also think your gas is waaay old and needs to be either drained and put into the lawn mower, or maybe you can get buy if you fill it up with new 91 octane.

[John A. Gallo]

I did not remove the DME Relay at all. Since I had spark and the relay did click 1st when the key was turned on then once I started to crank it. All I did was to jump the fuel pump the key was off. I could hear the pump. I only let the pump run for one or two maybe three seconds. I didn't want to flood or do some unknown damage. I jumped back into the car turned the key on and the car started up. I held the idle up for awhile until she warmed a little. Then I wanted to see if it would idle and it did. I let the car run for fiftheen min. then turned off then tried to start again it did and it idled just fine. This time I ran it for another twenty mins. just to dry out any mosture I thought might be in it.
If you think I should change the DME relay I will. I plan on going back tomorrow.
What do the relays cost??? John Gallo

[rusnak]

I would get a dme relay, keep it in the glovebox until you need it, which may be soon. In any case, you would be safer with a known good spare in reserve.