H1, H4, H5, HID, hike ????

911st · 04-04-2008, 02:12 PM

What are the differences in head lights?

H4's are what most of us buy and I have had these before.

Do 964 head lights fit SC's & 3.2 Carrera's?

Is there a 964 HID setup?

How about the cheep HID conversion kits I see on eBay. Do they work with the H-4's?

88-diamondblue · 04-04-2008, 09:21 PM

964's are the same as used on the 87-89 Carrera's and will fit on the earlier cars. Euro h4's are the best and not much more than the H5's as just replacement lens assembly's are 165.00 each.

rennch · rennch's Garage

Good question...I've always wanted to know this as well.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Susquehanna MotorSports has some good info on their site:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Bulb_help.htm

IIRC converting a halonen to HID isn't a good idea as the reflectors and lenses are different. Also, HID don't have filaments, so they can't be high/low beam on a single bulb and they require a ballast to start.

That being said, we ran HID bulbs in cheap-o sealed beam replacement housings in the 25-hour race in 2006 , and the light from them was excellent. They were in no way shape or form street legal.

Tom

911st · 04-05-2008, 09:39 PM

So the 964 lights fit into the SC/Carrera's.
Do they attach to same?
Are they inferior to the h4's?
Do they have the same plug?
Are they a single bulb like the H4's? What is an H5?
My USA lights are ug

spuggy · 04-06-2008, 02:43 PM

964 lights are H5's. I had some in my '77 before I upgraded to Euro H4's. Yes, the H5's, whilst way better than US sealed beams and less fugly to boot, have an inferior beam pattern to the earlier H4's. They're not bad though.

Cheapest upgrade method is to fit Cibie or Hella reflectors into the "sugar scoops" buckets. Does nothing for the appearance, but improves the beam pattern. If anything, Cibie reflectors probably perform marginally better than Bosche Euro H4's.

H5's use a unique plug on the wiring harness, so you need to adapt that. Which should be no problem, because upgrading the wiring harness, running direct to the battery terminals and fitting a relay setup will improve the lighting output considerably just on it's own. As well as extending the life of the wimpy little contacts in the headlight and stalk switches.

911st · 04-06-2008, 03:02 PM

Thank you, I mostly understand now. Do the H5's run seperate bulbs or a combo like the H4's?

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by emcon5

IIRC converting a halogen to HID isn't a good idea as the reflectors and lenses are different. Also, HID don't have filaments, so they can't be high/low beam on a single bulb and they require a ballast to start.

That being said, we ran HID bulbs in cheap-o sealed beam replacement housings in the 25-hour race in 2006 , and the light from them was excellent. They were in no way shape or form street legal.

Tom

I have done a low beam conversion on my other car with the 'cheap' ($350) HID kits. This worked very well as the Low and Hi beams are separate bulbs. However, in our 911s, like Tom says, we have combo High/Low bulbs. So the basic HID kits are useless, though they do work REALLY well and I almost never use the brights. One could use just the Lows I guess and be relatively safe.

To get the Hi/Low combo I think you want a bi-xenon setup. There was a gent last year who was looking into making a kit for older 911s but I never heard of it being finished.

Best regards,

Michael

spuggy · 04-06-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

Thank you, I mostly understand now. Do the H5's run seperate bulbs or a combo like the H4's?

H5's (properly 9004) are a combined bulb like the H4 (9003), but the connector is different, that's all.

There's lots of good automotive lighting information here. The tech sections are all worth reading IMO:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

Euro h4's are the best

Actually, I think H1's are the best.

911 tweaks · 04-07-2008, 06:20 AM

why so ED? Please add more to your answer.
Thanks, Bob

efhughes3 · efhughes3's Garage

I think the H1's with their seperately adjustable low and high beam bulbs have been the standard of headlights for older P-cars. The parabolic shape of the reflectors provides for a fairly intense, but wide pattern of illumination, IMO.

The only knock? Price and lack of availability and parts. When sets come up on Ebay now, even those needing refurb, they go for an arm and a leg.

911 tweaks · 04-07-2008, 07:13 AM

thanks for the info on the h1's... so what would you consider 2nd best ?? (as I would agree that if the h1's are the ones I see for $1k+... that is nuts in my opinion...)

My application is an SC w/o lights as of now and the outer trim rings need/will be painted the car color...(I am under the impression that the relays need to be added for what ever set up one runs for safety a/o if one uses 100w+ set ups)

Thanks again, Bob

javadog · 04-07-2008, 08:50 AM

The biggest advantage an H1 has over an H4 is the fact that you are not limited to what Bosch or Cibie thought was an appropriate difference in angle (elevation) between the low and high beams.

With an H4 (or any light with a dual filament bulb) if you adjust the low beams to give the most range, the high beams will be too high. If you adjust the high beams for the most range, the low beams will have a shorter range that is desirable. Dangerous, even, given that you have to run at highway speeds on low beam much of the time. You end up out-driving your lights.

An H1 allows you to adjust the beams independently, so this is never an issue. You can even align them assymetrically, or run a wider spread on low than high. In this way, you can end up with a high beam that you can sometimes run on widely seperated lanes of divided highways. The possibilities are endless.

Relays are used to remove the full current from the high beam switch, to prolong the life of the switch. The lights end up brighter, too.

JR

911 tweaks · 04-07-2008, 09:15 AM

JR great info. I am now clear on this now.

My last question... where can I get aftermarket H1 lights as I don't have the budget for the $1k+ real deal H1's??? I hope someone makes a repro version for a lot less $$...I hope as what you describe really makes the H1's the way to go..do you have these H1's JR and if so, what wattage are you running and are their headlight lense cover options for the repo H1"s??
Thanks again
Bob

911st · 04-07-2008, 09:37 AM

Someone should take a set of H1's and hood mounted rally lights to China and have several thousand copies made. Even H4's are expensive at around $400 w bulbs, taxed, and delivered.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

tweaks - you live in plymouth, ma so H4's will be fine for you.

H1s - as noted above - show their stuff when you set the high beam for maximum jack rabbit fear out in the open desert.

911 tweaks · 04-07-2008, 10:17 AM

thanks guys...I'll probably buy the H4's for now and see if Wayne on the other light thread going on now can come up with a china copy of the H1's & possibly the hood mt lights!!
RWebb,,, are you running H4's and if so, what wattage are you running?
My applic is the resto of an 82'SC and the guy wants to drive down to NM this summer if all goes together in time... looks like I will probably go H4's but maybe something else will surface in the interium...
Bob

Hoppertn · 04-07-2008, 10:21 AM

Ugg, wish I had read about the H1's about 6 months ago, I saw a set go for $350 on Ebay and let it get away...

javadog · 04-07-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911 tweaks

JR great info. I am now clear on this now.

My last question... where can I get aftermarket H1 lights as I don't have the budget for the $1k+ real deal H1's??? I hope someone makes a repro version for a lot less $$...I hope as what you describe really makes the H1's the way to go..do you have these H1's JR and if so, what wattage are you running and are their headlight lense cover options for the repo H1"s??
Thanks again
Bob

Bob,

I do run H1 lights on any 911 that I drive much at night. My wife's targa makes due with H4 lights, as she mostly drives it to the local Saks 5th Avenue store on nice days. I don't think it's ever been out of town and driven at night. The road to Saks is well lit, in any case.

There are no reproduction H1 lights, so far as I know. You also can't put an H1 lens on another type of light and expect it to do anything good. You have to be patient and keep an eye peeled for a set. I bought my first set in the early 80's and it stayed with me when I upgraded cars. The last set I bought cost me $400, a couple of years ago. Obviously, I don't buy them on eBay, as the shark infested waters there are not worth wasting my time.

I don't run any exotic bulbs. The highest I've ever run was 100 watts. If you aim the beams where they should be, a standard 55 or 60 watt bulb does OK.

If you can't find a set of H1s, I'd buy a set of H4's from Pelican and install them with relays and 80/100 bulbs and aim them for best low beam performance with an empty fuel tank. I'd do the usual initial (measured and marked) aim against a wall then find an empty, flat stretch of road in the boonies and make any final adjustments. I'd keep the trim rings off for a while (or at least the first tank of fuel,) in case they need a little tweaking.

When buying bulbs, consult a guy like Daniel Stern to figure outwhich ones are the right ones. There's a lot of crap and hype out there and he knows his stuff.

Good luck,
JR