I like the Jetta VR6, too. Surprisingly quick and really fun to drive. Looks pretty cool, great warranty, and the price is really right. It seems a fully loaded one (with lots of really cool options) goes for about $22.5.

WRX seems a good choice. You can even take it to RallyCross. US spec. is a bit less power, but enough for daily driving. I bought a VW Passat 1.8T for my wife couple years ago. Basically, it's a Audi A6 w/o the V6 engine and badge. The 1.8T is great. Not much different vs the 2.8 V6. Yes, it's a front-drive car, but VW did a good job by mounting the engine longditudely to reduce torque steer. Roomy interior and reliable. We already have 94K miles on it (a long commute in L.A.) and no problem at all except regular service. Get the 5 speed. The 2002 model should have even more hp, but I think the actual hp is more than they advertise since they don't want to make Audi owners angry. Give it a test drive!
Andy
'87 Carrera

My previous car was an AUDI 1.8T. I had it chipped and put on a freeflow exhaust. It went like a bat out of hell and was pushing about 145KW. It's pretty good on fuel and damn reliable. I sold it to a friend when I bought my Carrera and he still runs me pretty close in it. I had a BMW 318IS before that but it bore me to tears. BMWs are also way to common here and is usually one of the top 3 sellers. My friend has an old shape WRX, the looks are debatable but other than that it's a real drivers car.

Porsche: 911. Used. Under 30k. Plenty around, excellent performance and handling, adequate brakes,very reliable and good styling. Space in the rear for the family, room under the hood for anything else you might need.
Come on guys: reality check time.

I think what you need is a '71 Pinto or '71 Gremlin. Man, they just don't make cars like that anymore. Replacement parts are easy to find in ANY trailer park. Everybody in rush hour traffic looks at them. Plus nobody in there right mind will park next to them. When was the last time you saw a pinto or gremlin pulled over for speeding?


Yes, I have been drinking.
Tim in Sac

Audi A4 1.8 Turbo. I have a '98.5, Brillant yellow, Quattro, manual, Sport Pac, Sunroof. Paid 27K. The current A4's have 20 more hp to boot, 170 hp. With aftermarket toys you can easily get 210 hp. Chip, cat back, etc.

You also get 3 year warranty, 3 years of free scheduled service and 3 years of road side assistance. Such a deal.

The sad thing is I can auto-x the bone stock A4 quicker than my not stock Carrera. Quattro is amazing. However the Carerra rules on a road race track the A4 is too heavy.

The new Volvo S60 is an excellent car by all reports. Has available a manual trans and comes in a bit over 30K. We have had 2 S70's and loved them both.
Mark

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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

I think the best car to fit your criteria would be a used BMW 540i 6-speed. I have a '98 in addition to my p-car, and believe me, the bimmer has 911 speed while seating 4 to 5 comfortably. For your stated price range, perhaps a '95 would fit the bill. They are pretty reliable, solid and nearly bulletproof cars.

Ummm...does it have to be a car? Jeep Cherokees are:<UL>[*] Small (compared to most other SUV's)[*] Powerful (the 2000's have over 200 hp)[*] Surprisingly quick (my '97 does 0-60 in 8 seconds flat)[*] Roomy (seating for 5, plus plenty of cargo space)[*] Available with ABS[*] In the low 20's, nicely equipped (even the 4x4's)[*] Tough (Mine was the middle car in a 3 car pileup which totalled both the Grand Marquis in front of me and the Misubishi Eclipse behind me, but damage to my Jeep was limited to a scratched bumper and Class III hitch-no ****)[*] Plus, they can tow the P-car to far-away tracks![/list]
Of course, this is the last year for new Cherokees-the Jeep Liberty will replace it in the lineup-(and my wife wants one!) Hmmm...210 hp V6, mid '20's pricewise for a nice 4x4....maybe... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

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Clay McGuill '66 912, '97 Jeep Cherokee www.geocities.com/the912guy

[This message has been edited by ClayMcguill (edited 05-09-2001).]

My friend just bought a '98 M3 for 28K with 55K miles. Amazing car! If Porsches didn't exist, I'd be driving one right now.

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Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet
92 C-2 Cabriolet

Don't know when it is scheduled to go on sale in the US, but Jaguar have just launched the X-type over here (UK). In the first road tests over here it has compared very favourably with the BMW 3.

They are all 4wd, auto or manual, with either a 2.5 or 3 V6 motor with 190, and 230 bhp respectively (approx). I think that the starting price will be (just) under 30K

Of course, if you need to go faster, you will have to wait for the twin supercharged R model!


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Marcus

'73 S Targa

[This message has been edited by MBlake (edited 05-10-2001).]

looking at what you want. i think your best bet would be either a VW Passat, a Chrysler PT Cruiser (with the 5-speed), or a Subaru WRX.

out of all of them, if it was my $$ on the line, it would be the WRX. but if you ever want to fit other people in there, the PT Cruiser would be cool!

good luck!

obin

Sticking with your request (new, 5-speed, fits 4) here is my suggestion:

Audi A6 (I like the Avant (wagon) but that is just me). Down side is front wheel drive without the Quatro. Smooth V-6 or I think base 1.8 Turbo.

Lincoln LS with the Sport package (yes it has a manual and stiff suspension). Sister car to the Jaguar and costs way less. Good balance and fits four people very well. Rear wheel drive too!!!

Subaru Legacy with the new flat 6 water cooler and all-wheel-drive. Not a well publicised car but a very strong package. Down side is the generic Rice interior same as Honda, Nissan, etc.

Nissan Maxima V-6 if you are on a budget. Watch for spontaneous combustion in accidents... Only manufacter that I have seen late model cars catch on fire in small rear-enders.


What I do not think will work:
-WRX excellent car, but too small for 4 adults.
-BMW 3 series way too small for two good size people in the front for a road trip. Great engines though.
-BMW 5 is too pricy for new, but a darn good car. Stears heavy in turns though, drives heavy to me and leans instead of body slides. If I owned one I would put on stiffer springs if not the sport package.
-Volvo... Shoot me if I ever own a Volvo. Complete suburbia sell out soccer mom car. Better get that Viagra prescription filled. Image is horrible, too bad because the car is a respectable performer... Most Volve owners religiously go 5 MPH below the speed limit for no apparent reason.
-Explorer/Cherokee/Generic SUV... NOT! Unless you like cars that cannot stop, handle, or get resonable gas milage. Don't get me started. Basically see the Legacy wagon or Audi A4 or A6 Avant for substitutions if you need the cargo room.


I would highly reccommend the used car route though... A high quality car that is a few years old to save a few bucks. Cars are designed to last much longer than people keep them for these days.



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

Wow, thanks for all the responses folks. I'm going to test-drive a WRX soon but will also be looking at a Jetta and an A4. I've driven my buddy's '98 (?) M3, which is frankly an amazing vehicle. I don't know if I'm ready for BMW ownership though (the dealers out here are notorious a$$es--I could tell you some stories...).

Unfortunately the 3 WRXs in the state that aren't sold are automatics. At least I'll get a feel for the handling, engine, and general creature comforts.

Funnily enough, my wife currently drives a Tacoma Prerunner (2WD club cab) and wants to trade it for a PT Cruiser when we get rid of the horse (horse owner = pickup owner). We just bought the truck 9 months ago, though, so I don't think we'll sell it just yet. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif



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blue
'81 SC Targa

30 grand?

Brand spankin new VW Camper. 201 horse.

It is on my list of must haves.

Not to be PITA, but:

"It must have 4 seats for nearly-normal sized humans." <> Jetta or A4.

The A4 is smaller than the Passat so maybe shift focus a little bit... Think the Passat had a facelift for 2001 or coming in 2002.

Both small cars for 4 adults. I always check for adequate room by setting the drivers seat for me and then getting in the back seat behind it. Read the car brochuer(sp) and relax for 15 minutes, maybe talk to the wife if she is there or BS with the salesman. I have ruled out many cars this way. Especially if you entertain business people in your car you will want it to be very comfortable for passengers. Personally I hate to ride in small cramped cars back seats or smushed into the dash in the passengers seat.

Okay enough of my rambling.

1966_911S, I am very curious to see the new VW bus myself... Hopefully it will look remotely close to the show/prototype pics http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

BlueSkyJaunte,

I work for a Subaru Dealer in Melbourne, Australia. I have heard horror stories about availability of WRXs in the US. The order bank for manual cars over there is something like 3500 units.

As a result, the factory have abandoned production of these cars for the rest of the world, while they work hard at US Spec production. Here in Australia, we won't be getting any more new ones until Nov/Dec.

We've got only 8 cars to see us thru till then, with a red-hot product that has been tradionally sold out here in Australia with a six month waiting list.

Awsome car to drive & own. Very reliable, but so hard to get. You may find dealers are not busting a cent on price.

Good Luck

AC



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Adam Chaplin - 1976 911S Coupe

I would go with either a 5 series Beemer of your choice or an older audi S4.

Mike
86 Carrera t

Hehe, there is occasionally an advantage to living in a crap economy like New Zealand.

We have about 15 Imprezza's available countrywide (according to the Subaru chap I just rang). i.e. no waiting list if your colour etc is there. There are less than 4m of us, so 15 is quite a few...

And it is cheaper - about US$21k vs US$24k.

Of course we earn crap - so it is pretty expensive.

blue:

i just got back from Watkins Glen, where i finished up the info for my report on the 2001 Michelin One Lap of America. a week ago, i had interviewed the crew that entered the Subaru WRX in the event. i was eager to hear what they had to say about the car after driving in it for 6,000 miles over road and track.

the 3 guys, all who were much larger than me in height and weight, all said that the car was COMFORTABLE, FAST, and VERY impressive. they did a previous One Lap in a Ford COntour SVT and they said that the back seats of the WRX are much more comfortable than the Ford. also, the WRX ended the event just as bulletproof as it stated, with no problems encountered during the entire week. one of the guys was over 6 feet, and 280lbs. he said that the back seats of the WRX were comfortable even for a 900+mile drive. if anything, that says something good about the comfort of the car.

there's a lot more, and i have the entire interview on tape, so if you want more info, don't hesitate to e-mail me. from what i gathered though, the WRX would be a fine choice of car in which comfort, reliability, and performance were all on your shopping list.

just wanted to drop in the report http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

here's the pictures from last week, i will put up today's pictures on monday:

http://209.150.235.158:8585/onelap
http://209.150.235.158:8585/onelapsaturday

enjoy!

obin