I broke my 911 ...

She's a 1977 911S with a 2.7L, all upgrades. Engine and tranny rebuild 30K ago. I downshifted from 5th to 4th on the way to work and the emgine died, the tach went dead, and that was that. After coasting to the side of the road, the starter turned but the tach didn't move. It rolled fine so it's not stuck in gear. What the ???? have I done to my baby? My mechanic that I use for the big stuff (like this probably is) is autocrossing out of town this weekend and I can't wait to know. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

downshifting from 5th to 4th is always a challenge. I make damn sure I am in forth before I let go of the clutch.

did you hear any grinding sounds when you downshifted?

does the engine even turn over?

It's *possible* that I actually downshifted to 2nd - but the tach didn't jump, and the engine didn't roar. It just stopped. It's like the flywheel has separated from the crankshaft, the engine just doesn't spin at all. At the time I thought that I had an elctrical problem that caused the ignition to cut out, so I popped the clutch in 4th gear while I was still moving, to restart the engine, and the tach didn't move. That's when I knew I was in trouble.

Oh - and no grinding sound. No unusual sound at all.

I've had this happen to me before, except I wasn't downshifting. First of all, are you getting fuel or spark to the cylinders? Check to see if your points are stuck together. If they are burnt, get sandpaper and lightly sand each side down. Check for spark by pulling out each spark plug wire, stick a screwdriver in it and turn the engine over with the screwdriver near metal. See if your plugs are getting spark. To see if you're getting fuel, turn the ignition on, take off the airbox, and push up on the flapper valve(name?)(the thing in between the throttle body and fuel distributor underneath the big boot). You should hear the fuel pump whine and should smell gas. Try starting it up.

My problem was that it was getting way too hot in the engine compartment and that I was running a bit lean. I waited till the engine cooled down and was able to drive home. I'm no expert, just my experience and what a Porsche mechanic suggested for me to check. Good luck.

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Jeff
1976 911S

Disregard previous post first. Does the engine turn over?

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Jeff
1976 911S

I don't think the engine is turning. After the incident, I pulled over and tried the starter, the tach didn't move. I could hear the starter motor running, but it sounded *very* different.

In that case, I don't really know what's going on. If only the starter was spinning and the engine isn't turning over, my guess would be some gear in the starter needs replacing. Any experts out there with a clue?

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Jeff
1976 911S

Sounds electrical to me, but I am by no means an expert.

If you hit 2nd from 5th, you would know it, the engine would not just stop, it would over rev, and make a hell of a racket. It would probably even chirp the back tires.

I think you should check for fuel and spark. It is easy to tell if the motor is turning with the starter, the fan should move. If you don't have someone to work the starter, look for a ding on one of the fan blades you can use as a reference, crank it and see if it moves. You can also pop off the distributer cap and look at the position of the rotor. Crank the motor, pop the cap off again and see if it has moved. If neither of these are obvious, put it in first take the parking break off and VERY briefly hit the starter. Car jumps=engine cranking.

Pull a spark plug and see if it smells like gas. Ground it against the case, and have someone crank the engine and look for spark. I imagine you are missing either spark or fuel.

Let us know what you find.

OK first find out for sure if the engine is turning or not. Let us know.

If it is then I don't know.

If its not ensure that the starter is working, have a friend turn the key and you get under and listen. If it IS working but the engine isn't take the starter off and inspect the teeth, also look in to see the teeth on the ring gear inside.

If the starter is working and the engine isn't turning, I would guess that its in the teeth or starter. Keep us updated

Shawn

On a related note, even if the starter is not turning the engine, that should not cause the engine to die. Unless the starter gear is stuck engaged with the teeth on the engine, the car should run fine without it.

Assuming the engine quitting was nothing to do with the starter, and although it cranks it won't catch....

You need fuel, air and spark:

Figure out which is not making it to the cylinder. You are didn't, um, run out of gas, did you? Kidding. Jeff's desription will tell you if you are getting fuel and spark.

It sounds like your fuel supply has cut off or your spark (to all cylinders) has quit.

Cam

[This message has been edited by CamB (edited 05-11-2001).]

I agree with emcon5. It sounds like an electrical problem. Could be a ground that came loose. Also, check the connectors in the engine compartment to make sure everything is properly connected. For instance if one of the connectors on the coil breaks or slips off, the engine will die immediately. It will turn over but not start. Could be that one of the wires could have grounded. The same thing happens if the CD unit gets grounded by a broken wire or slipped connector.

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

have you checked the dist sounds like the cam chain has a problem, doe the engine sound like it has no compression??

If you went from 5th to second it is VERY possible that the flywheel is no longer connected to the engine. This can happen so fast that you wouldn't hear any revving from the engine.

This is what I'm thinking. It all happened in a split second, so I'm not sure if I actually dropped the clutch when it was in second (if it was). But I *know* that when I was still moving about 50mph, the tach was dead, and I dropped it into 4th to spin the engine and start it again. The tach never moved. So it can't be just a starting problem. The engine doesn't turn. I guessed that I had a major problem, so I got the car towed to my mechanic's shop. I think he's going to tell me I broke something big.

Good luck to you in this scary situation.

Porsche engines are very tough and it is probably something small. HOWEVER, I noted a recent rebuild. If the flywheel bolts were replaced there should be no problem with the flywheel. Ditto, rod bolts. If the crank was turned............by other than a couple of the best shops, hope that the journals were properly radiused. These are the worst case scenarios which probably were properly attended to, but let us know. I haven't heard of these failures for years. Yeah guys these things happen especially when you get ot a certain stage and you are sick of reordering those danged miscelaneous parts and you want to RIDE! I know people who have done all the above and gotten away with it, but not me, I hope. But, I'll probably do something equally lamebrained.

Diverdan

BaldNerd,
Remember the tach drive is electronic, triggered by the ignition. If you lost all ignition impulse...no tach signal. By now you have probably tried rotating the crank by hand or at least watching the pulley while someone else cranks the starter. If you had had a crank failure, there would have been quite a bit of noise and vibratiion. I,m betting on ignition failure.
Good luck
Les

Hello

Just look if the distributor gives a spark. Listen to the CD unit.

If you aint spark then check the wires to the distributor and the CD box.

If proper remove cap and look if the middle pin has a coal runing on the center of the finger. next would be to check the finger and the breaker. Unplug the the center ignition wire on the cap and put it close to the ground by squizeng it under the Ciol post. Any distanze not farer than 0,5 inch to ground is ok. then turn ignition to on and lift the breaker with a screwdriver off. If it is in off then put in 5 Gear losse the brakes and push the car forward until the breaker will lift off again. You should hear and see a bright spark jumping over.

IF Yes your Ignition is ok. leave igniton on and remove aircleaner then lift the Meterinplate by pushing it slightly upwards. Now you must hear the fuelpump and a deeper sound from the fuel pressed trough the lines.

IF yes than sneak areound if a hose has fallen off or is cracked and generates a bigger vacuum leak.


If your flyhweel would come loose you would hear a very iky sound. Also if anything bad happend the car would make bad noises.

IF you can see the Fan working while pushing in high gear the mechanics should be all right.

If you like to use try the starter then turn ignition off and follow the enginewireloom to the big connector on the rear. Don´t unplug just remove top cover and you will see the soldered end from the connectors. If you short red to yellow the starter will kick in and should turn the engine. Watch if the finger on the distributor is turning too.

IF the starter just klicks and then nothing happens or you see smoke then maybe the groundstrap on the trany is off.

Just use a starter cable to make ground beetween engine and body. Clamp one end on the outher engine carrier rubber mount bolt ( 13mm )
and the other end on the big 19 mm bolt from the Engine carrier.


Grüsse

About a year and a half ago I was driving my SC happily down the road when all of a sudden...blowap....just up and died... I wasn't shifting but it was like I turned the ignition off.
Well after about 3 weeks of trouble shooting and after a new coil and CD box were installed still no run run...
I just happened to be in the shop talking to my wrench when his assistant came in to the office and said...hey I found the problem...
it turned out that one of the screws on my fuse block had come loose and allowed one of the fuses to go out. But the fuse didn't blow so it looked fine. I remember him telling me that it was the fuse for my left high beam headlight, which made no sence to me but I really didn't care because my car was running like a champ.
just something to keep in mind.
I was not getting any spark, and no hum from my CD box...but the engine definately cranked.
best of luck,


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Leland Pate
___'99 Dodge Dakota <-which pulls the "real" car
___'79 SC Targa
Which hopefully will be back together soon...