Fender Flairs

Can someone please describe the different fender flair profiles? RS, RSR, SC, Turbo. Is it possible to install the flairs in all steel/lead without filler/bondo?

Mark

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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

Mark,

Yes, butt-welding the flares in place and filling with lead, not bondo, can be done by some bodyshops, but it can cost you an arm and a leg.

Here's my understanding of the flares.

Early narrow-body cars 1965-1968 had no flaring at all. In 1969 a little bit of a lip was turned out, making 7-inch flares in front and back. This arrangement made it all the way to 1977.

However, the 911 ST had 9-inch flares in front and back.

The Carrera RS of 1973 had stock front 7-inch front flares and 9-inch rears.

The 1973 Carrera RSR had 11-inch rear flares and 9-inch front flares.

The 1974 IROC RSR cars had 11-inch rear flares and 9-inch front flares, too (I think).

The 1974 Widebody RSR had 14-inch rear flares and 10.5-inch front flares.

The SC and Carrera flares are the same. They allow the same size wheels as the Carrera RS rear flares, but the RS had a slightly chunkier lip than the later models' 9-inch rear flares.

Standard Turbo cars had 11-inch rear flares and 9-inch front flares.

At least, that's how I understand it. If I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me.

Threads I found:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/003712.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/005103.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/006344.html

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/004525.html


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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 04-21-2001).]

Hey Jack...a bit of an aesthetic question. You know, some 993s, I don't know if it's the turbo or some NA variant, but they seem to have very large rear flares, but no flaring in the front.
I like this, and I'm wondering (since I just mounted my carrera tail which looks pretty cool so far) how a 3.2 would look with this 993 idea. No flaring in the front, and 11 inch turbo in the back.
I ask because I've heard that the Turbo look without the Turbo fist can reduce top speed due to the flaring...
Anyone chime in with an opinion on this, or if anyone has done this, post it.



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Kurt B
'84 Carrera Cab.
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

All production 993's have the same front but the C2S, C4S and the Twin turbo 993 have the big "widebody" rearend.

Thanks for the primer Jack. Couldn't get the pages from the idee.demon site to open, but will check back later.
Another question. Did Porsche use lead or bondo when they grafted the flairs on to the early cars?
Mark


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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

Kurt,

It is certainly true that the RS 3.0 lost about 3 mph over the RS 2.7, so the drag coefficient was a factor, but wider tires were also part of the additional drag. But, realistically, what difference does 5 mph or even 7 mph make to you if the car looks better, and feels better due to other improvements, such as wider wheels and tires? So, it only goes 143 mph instead of 150 mph!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

The early turbo fenders were welded and leaded. They were welded on up until until 1986 when they were stamped.

David

Mark, I moved the images to my own machine, so the links should work now (so long as my computer is on).

Kurt, I think 11-inch flares in the back and 7s in the front would look cool, but -- unless you went with 9-inch wheels and huge spacers -- you might mess up the car's handling. It's hard not to imagine a whole lot of understeer from that combination -- you'd be pushing your lightweight front end like an old-style farm tractor.

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 04-21-2001).]

Thanks Jack.

Hahaha...good point Jack, and nice imagery!
Warren: if it were just a few MPH like 7, no problem. In fact, I've never really taken much beyond 130mph anyway, but someone a while back said after the turbo look he lost alot more than that, like 15 or 20 MPH....now that I think about it though, I don't remember if it was a Carrera or an older 911 with a lower top speed and the loss might have been less than I'm thinking

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Kurt B
'84 Carrera Cab.
carrera_cabriolet@yahoo.com

Corrections

I used to work for the now infamous By Design in Los Angeles, CA. The SC and carrera flair is NOT different but the same. The stock fenders and 1/4 panels are the same part number. All the other onformation is corect. As far as the 993/993 TT, the front is the same but on the rocker panel right where the front fender meets it, the Turbo has a little extra peice welded to it so that the rocker flairs ever so slightly. tjis is akey in spotting a real Turbo and or proper conversion and a bad one and or fake. There is a gap but not many shops seem to place this peice in the correct position. They need to weld it with the gap.

Thanks, I'll correct the above post.

Jack,
Did you put the SC's on your car and remind me what size wheels you are running in back?
Thanks again for the help.
Mark

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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

I've got SC flares, which can fit up to 9-inch wheels, in theory. I've got 16x8-inch wheels in back.

I see your mind is cranking away on the possibilites, Mark. From the sound of things, I'd say it looks like there's a Texas chapter of R Gruppe in the making...

As a side note, I just sent my second set of 7x8x16 wheels in to be refinished in the early style (polished rim and spokes, painted insets), and my local refinisher gave me the same price of $50/wheel, which I think is pretty good. I know someone else on the board called the same outfit, and got a quote of nearly double that.

Why would you put flares on an early, narrowbody car, you ask?

Here's why.

That pic says it all Jack. And yes, I'm still torn whether to modify it or not. I have decided to put a ducktail on it. Sort of sticking my toes in the water. Thanks for the help.
Mark


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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

When I was agonizing over the ducktail choice, I put together a group of samples. You'll see it includes one on a narrow car.

Still life with ducktail.

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 04-21-2001).]

Mark, definitely go with the SC flares...the mod really improves the look and function of the car. I wish there was a R Gruppe in Oz



Glad you taught me how to post pictures now?!

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John Forcier
69 911T

[This message has been edited by Fishcop (edited 04-21-2001).]

John,
Always glad to see that car. I just noticed that your steering wheel is on the wrong side though.
Mark

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Mark B. Wilson
1970 911E
mbwilson@home.com
http://www.marksobsessions.20m.com/

How much speed you lose with the flares depends on what top speed you hd to start with. A 150mph car might go down to 144mph with turbo flares. A 210mph Ruf might go down to 195mph with turbo flares. This might sound academic to some but remember it will also make a noticeable difference in high speed acceleration.

RSR 959, why do you say that By Design is infamous. Did something happen? Btw, are spacers the only way to increase the track width for a turbo look conversion on a 964?